Mage tips for Eschalon II?

Alrighty, based on recommendations in a previous thread, I've purchased EBII. I'm at the beginning again and looking for mage build suggestions along with overall suggestions on important skills to take. I've read a thread over on the Basilisk forums about building up mercantile and the create food skill for massive amounts of cash, but I'm really more interested in building a mage, though cash will be handy.

How important are skills like alchemy, foraging, etc., and is perception still the best attribute in the game for mages. Last game, you never got a bonus from raising intellect past 20.
Do spells ever grow in power in this game or are they still static, ie a level 6 fire dart will always do X amount of damage no matter what your level or stats?
How easy is it to get to the major skill training town? Can I do a quest or two and then just go buy skills like cartography, foraging, etc?
Do I need to powergame to survive or can I just plod along? I generally like to get cartography leveled up fast, so I'd like to know whether to just build that skill from character creation or if the other skills are more important.

I was thinking that my first character would have Elemental Magic-5, Cartography-5, and then not sure what to finish up with. If this is a bad idea or you have other suggestions, please tell!

Mage is fairly easy to build, but Cart at 5 is WAY too high. In the early stages 1 is sufficient, you will get an amulet of cart +2 early on most likely and training/book reading saves important skill points. Meditation at level 1 is essential and MUST be taken at creation. You should have at least 3 levels in Div for the healing spells and later Ogre Power. Some spells require Elemental of level 31 to fire at power 6, but don't worry till MUCH later in the game. I had equipment which gave me about a +5 to elemental by the end of the game. Perception is still essential, as is Concentration, but I found raising Attribs at the appropriate time not an issue. Most skills can be learned, or read and for a mage several, such as swords, light armor don't need to be above level 1 to avoid any penalty. Level 1 swords costs 100 gold to train. Spells have a range time power effect and some do single target damage, while others do multiple targets. Air compression, dark nimbus and a freeze spell are the most useful after fire dart. By the time I needed them I had plenty of cash to buy the high level ones. The only good spell I found difficult to get was Lockmelt until after I finally bought it, then everyone had it!! Foraging is the next most important skill to get. Again I found a +2 ring for it fairly early as well. I put mine up to level 3 early on. You get reagents everytime you rest which can be sold. Repair level 1 also helps, but I never needed to take it higher. You can learn it it one of the cities. I saved alchemy till later in the game when I really needed some potions. I found most of the recipes in chests along the way. Hope that helps.

Also, I'd say investing in Alchemy won't really pay off unless you have a few points in Foraging. There's a scarcity of ingredients which is nicely remedied by that skill.

The three most important mage stats are: perception, perception and perception. Mana regen is everything.

Put 90% of your attribute points into perception. The rest in intelligence. You need 25 intelligence to learn the third tier spells. You can safely ignore every other attribute, maybe drop a point or two into endurance or wisdom to learn div spells, or concentration if you're having issues with spells failing at point blank range.

Skill-wise, put most of your points in elemental and some in meditation. the cartography skill is a waste once you get the mapping spell, but 1 point starting out is good. 1 Light armor and/or 1 in piercing cuts down increases survivability at the start, although you could just ignore weapons entirely.

I never bothered camping once I learned the heal spell so i never foraged, but i guess if you want to fiddle around with alchemy it's useful.

Thanks guys! I'm surprised more people on the forums here haven't replied. I thought that Eschalon was beloved by the Watch. Maylander has probably played it through 6 times already, and Rune_74 was a beta tester. C'mon you two give me some hints

@Corwin, I may need to start over because I did dump 5 points into Cartography. I can't stand for a map to be uncovered. Where can I get the Cartography skill quick? I'd love to get it up high as fast as possible, because I really can't stand to leave any black on my map. Conversely, how easy is it to get the reveal map spell? If I can get it just as fast as cartography, I'll go that route if it's a tier 1 spell. If it's tier 2, then it might be better to go the cartography way instead.

If nobody pitches in before I get home, I'll go with a new guy and choose Elemental Magic-5, Meditation-2, Cartography-1 and Divine Magic-2. I'm going to try not using a weapon the whole game if possible. I guess I'll raise Elemental to 7 and Divine to 3 at level 2 and see how that plays out. I definitely want cartography raised quickly, so I'll try reloading the merchants a few times and see if I can get the cartography item. The seed generator is the only thing that I turn off in the beginning settings. I must be able to re-roll my loot!

I'm about level 5 and haven't come across the reveal map spell as yet. But you can buy a compass early on that gives you plus 2 and makes the map more legible. I still have just 1 in Cartography despite liking a full minimap as you do, and I'm getting by okay. The skill trainer for cartography is in Port Kuudad—I haven't gotten there yet, but I'd say a few hours of playtime in for a mage if you make a special effort to get there. The skill book might be a better early choice—but it involves a lot of save-reload on chests and the inn merchants every seven days. I've yet to see it. (It's called Through the Lost Realms.)

The early game is pretty cash constrained, so foraging (and selling the resulting reagents) brings in some welcome cash. The perception advice is vital—and when you're rolling up, though you don't want to sink too many points in them, with enough patience it's pretty easy to get high rolls in endurance and strength, which will help you with casting while wearing/holding equipment and stuff(str), resists and HP(end).

It's a fun game though not without it's frustrations, one of which is the endless slow walking and obstructions/rules that seem to have no useful purpose except to slow you down or make things more complicated. Other than that, though, it's quite enjoyable. (I'm playing a ranger with just some magic backup, which is why I didn't want to leap in with any mage-specific advice.)

Good luck.

Somebody said that with good mercantile, foraging, and the create food spell money is extremely easy to come by. Thanks for the tips, magerette. I can't believe you aren't playing a full mage with your forum nick I'm very patient with re-rolling. I don't take a character with less than 10 in any attribute and INT/PER must be 14 before I'll accept them. I'm a chronic re-roller, reloader.

I'm falling in hate with the trees in Eschalon. All the tiny little paths to get anywhere are a MAJOR drag. Still, it's par for the course in many games, so I just grind my teeth and map every square inch anyway!

People are complaining the mage in EB book 2 is way way way too powerful, so you better hurry to play if you want your mage to be almighty before they make it less so

Yep, from what I can tell so far, mages are just not squishy in this game.

After perusing the starting conditions, I decided to do my first run on Easy. I found the mage pretty uber right at the kickoff, so thought I'd save it for a playthrough at a higher difficulty. The ranger is a bit more challenging, and I'm quite enjoying my little Dryad with her foraging and alchemy skills while I try to figure out how the game works.

Know what you mean about the trees--and there seem to be a lot of places that are artificially separated for no real reason except to make you walk and use extra days up. Days last like five minutes. I'm particularly irked at how you can't get to your own house from the house across from it (the dragonel guy) without walking around two acres of obstacles.

But that's just minor silly stuff--just have to get a gripe in.

I found the reveal map spell in the first town the first time I began playing. It's probably random, but normally it appears early on. Strangely, I never used it.

I found it to be completely useless, Corwin. For whatever reason your character isn't smart enough to write down what the spell reveals. It's a totally wasted spell slot, so I'll never bother learning it. Plus, at level 3 power it lasts all of 30 seconds. I tried it in place of cartography last night an was totally underwhelmed. Another waste of slot is Gravedigger's Flame. It lasts a long time but it doesn't light up an area any bigger than a torch. A lantern quickly replaces all "seeing" spells except for the Khajit Eye spell that lets you see in the dark.

I rerolled a character last night and got Ele-Magic, Div-Magic, and Meditation. I'll reload till I get both the item and the book from the innkeeper for Cartography. I like mapping from the beginning. That may take a while but it'll beat wandering around blind. I've also noticed that many barrels are leveled loot, so I think I'll kill all the low level creatures (rats, dragonels) before tackling the first dungeon. That first dungeon has TONS of barrels. Entering at level 3 might be more rewarding than entering at level 1.

Gravediggers flame works a lot better in conjunction with Cats Eye, but I mostly prefer it because it allows my ranger to use her bow, which holding a torch or lantern screws up. AFA the skill book for Cartography, I've not yet seen it once(though the Reveal Map spell turned up in a chest last night.) The innkeeper in the first town
Good luck with your mage.

Predator sight is the best "seeing" spell by far for all mage builds and for rangers. It allows handling enemies best. In non-combat situations a torch is completely sufficient and since you get an unlimited number for free nearly everywhere, there is no need to use anything else.

(Only thief types, who want to hide in the dark, might have different needs.)

Mages are by far the easiest and most powerful builds, since you can avoid most melee situations.

Hmm, a hand to hand melee character can do over 2000 damage in a single hit. I don't think there is a spell that comes anywhere close, but I could be wrong. There are arguments for hand-to-hand, bow, and piercing as being the best builds but I haven't seen a thread about mages being the most powerful. Could anyone link such threads? I must have rolled a 7 on my forum search ability over at Basilisk.

crpgnut said:

Hmm, a hand to hand melee character can do over 2000 damage in a single hit. I don't think there is a spell that comes anywhere close, but I could be wrong. There are arguments for hand-to-hand, bow, and piercing as being the best builds but I haven't seen a thread about mages being the most powerful. Could anyone link such threads? I must have rolled a 7 on my forum search ability over at Basilisk.

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It is not so much about the damage but about the possibility to replace all support skills by spells. For example defensive buffs are much stronger than any armour.

See this post by PhilosophiX for more examples.

I also didn't find specific "strongest build" threads but for my feeling when reading several of the threads all the resident posters take it for granted that mage builds are much easier than builds without magic.

Edit: This is a guidance thread for mage builds.

Edit 2: The Reveal Map skill is not useless. It is true that you do not see the map if it is not active. But if you reactivate it, you see everything again you once revealed. It is not as if you had to rediscover things. If you have mana regeneration high enough (max is 9 points per turn according the threat cited above), you can easily have reveal map plus several buffs on all the time and cast attack spells in addition.

Playing as a pure mage I find things pretty easy. With high MP regen (2/turn currently) and the right spells, you can basically ignore major parts of the game.

Create food + Draw water = ignore the food and drink rule
Reveal map = ignore the cartography skill
Dense nimbus + attack spells = ignore armor, weapons, and repair skill
Lock melt = ignore pick lock skill
Divine heal = ignore having to rest to recover HP
Gravedigger's flame + cat's eyes = ignore torches, day/night cycle

And unlike bow and thrown weapon specialists, you don't have to worry about ammo.

The game isn't necessarily TOO easy as a mage, but it's much harder as a fighter, rogue, or ranger. It would be nice if there were some things those build types could do better than a mage.

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Here is a good quote from the same page.

GothicGothicness said:

Here is a good quote from the same page.

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Thanks, that was one of the posts I had seen before but missed when trying to give a link!

Yes, these are great GG! So a mage will be good for a first game and then if I enjoy it enough, I could try a hybrid like a paladin and then maybe a purist weapon class. The toughest games would be one where you never cast a spell...interesting. It also sounds very much like an elemental only mage would be a much tougher play than a mage with divine/both. One more thought though: A melee class wouldn't have to worry about leveling skills up to 31 like a mage though, would they? Or do you need to reach such levels to be truly effective as a warrior? I was thinking that might be the equalizer. While it's true that a mage can substitute for many skills, he needs to be absurdly skilled to do so. To get both sets of divine and elemental to 31, he'll need to focus almost exclusively on those two skills. If a warrior can get by with 5-10 points in weapon and armor, then he should have tons of points left over to have skills that would match the high level mage.

If the game is fun enough, I'll see for myself. Here's to hoping it's so fun I'll want to replay three of four times. I never even finished the first game but I played a bunch of mages up to level 10-12 and easily got my money's worth.

bkrueger said:

Predator sight is the best "seeing" spell by far for all mage builds and for rangers. It allows handling enemies best. In non-combat situations a torch is completely sufficient and since you get an unlimited number for free nearly everywhere, there is no need to use anything else.
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I'm the person who complained about how hideously blindingly dark the dungeons were in Book I to the point where I almost refused to play it til Gothic and a few others twisted my arm, so I use all *3* spells for my personal comfort level…and I have some torches also, just in case. My eyes are bad enough that I don't need any "down a deep hole in the bowels of the earth" type atmosphere to make things scary because its dark. It's not scary for me, it's invisible.

Predator sight is awesome, though, giving all the spiders and such a nice radioactive, greenish glow. Not to mention it eliminates the 'shoot in the dark" penalty.

@crpgnut: re: the warrior, I think the weapon feats are really important, and the more points in the weapon skill by multiples of 5 or 10(?)the more often they can be used. I know my kill rate was pathetic on the bow til i got to 10, and I could use having that feat available far more frequently instead of once every five minutes of playtime. Yeah, I'm thinking lots of replay value in this game.

I'll probably replay at least enough to actually hold a weapon. I'm trying to go magic exclusive so I've never equipped anything in my weapon hand. So far, I'm just wandering around looking for something interesting to do. The loot in the game is completely underwhelming and opening chests and barrels seems to be the main focus of the dungeons and outdoor areas I've seen to this point. It seems like there are only a very small handful of each item in the game. With the game having such simple graphics, I really expected thousands of different items, even if many used the same tile. This could still happen. I'm only level 4 or 5.

In fact it did happen. I'm finding the variety quite a bit better since I got past the demo areas of the game. I'm having fun again after a little lull of dull