The Witcher 2 - Preview @ PC Gamer

I'm currently playing the first witcher (The Witcher) and while I find the game, the story and the characters as well as the choice and consequence are top notch, I really really don't like the (twitch) combat. Click on the enemy, the monsters, or human enemies, untill they're dead. Combat is fast, responsive, and action-oriented - just like the combat in DA2. (why people get angry over the combat in DA2 while it is nearly similar to the one The Witcher, I really don't know...)

And I actually found The Witcher's take on loot refreshing, as I did with the monster-slayer Geralt. There was a reason why Geralt did not have many outfits as he, as a slayer of monsters, leads a simple life. And Geralt really only needs 2-3 swords to fight the monsters and enemies he needs to find in the game, The Witcher.

The art direction, the lighting, the buildings, the visuals are all done beautifully and with great skill. It is clear to see that competent people did work on this game, Witcher 1.
And the story defies the usual tropes when it comes to elves and dwarves etc. - DA: Origins tried to do the same, and succeeded somewhat, but not like in the first Witcher game.

Lol The Witcher fights like DA2 fights, that's quite ridiculous.

Here three points why there's no link:

1 - Long actions management
Like in any action game a player action should involve the game action. So when you have special movements taking longer time, the action game let you break it but then you lost the benefit of this special action. That is the Witcher action game approach, with a little detail not that frequent in action games, you initiate an action and this can trigger a quite long action with multiple action parts, but you could interrupt it.

In DA2 it's not at all the same system. Unlike action games, long actions generate a very quick effect, but the action continue after and you can't interrupt it, and you need wait the end of the action. That's a huge difference with action games.

2 - Pause system
The second point is about pausing, in both games you can but in The Witcher you are limited to some inventory management and can't use it for attacking. In DA2, the system is made so you can pause constantly and use pause to aim more precisely an attack or anything.

3 - Single character vs Party
The third point is that you are managing a team in DA2, for sure you can let tactics do most of the stuff but the point is you can manage your party or some part of it using many pauses, The Witcher doesn't have that at all.

Well after my fanboy post, to comment about The Witcher, I also tried playing it, well replay to finish it (can't use old saves not compatible with EE version), and I have been surprised to find how fights wasn't that stupid nor that basic, I remembered something more easy at normal difficulty and more basic if you stick on chaining in time the attacks.

But another point hurt me, it's how the beginning of the game is used to merge into the game a sort of tutorial. It's a so wrong approach because the beginning of something, book, movie, and game is a quite important element and try include in it a tutorial almost always generate a tedious beginning.

Funnily for some reason I switch to Avadon, and again, one more game merging a tutorial to game beginning and generating a tedious beginning.

I'm still waiting for a fox news report about the witcher 2. There still up in arms about Duke Nukem Forever. Not counting the petitions to ban the game from women.

Dasale said:

Well after my fanboy post, to comment about The Witcher, I also tried playing it, well replay to finish it (can't use old saves not compatible with EE version), and I have been surprised to find how fights wasn't that stupid nor that basic, I remembered something more easy at normal difficulty and more basic if you stick on chaining in time the attacks.

But another point hurt me, it's how the beginning of the game is used to merge into the game a sort of tutorial. It's a so wrong approach because the beginning of something, book, movie, and game is a quite important element and try include in it a tutorial almost always generate a tedious beginning.

Funnily for some reason I switch to Avadon, and again, one more game merging a tutorial to game beginning and generating a tedious beginning.

Click to expand...

I agree i'm not a big fan of the beginning being a tutorial but i'm not sure how else they would introduce players to new games.

It seems many people already find rpg's too complex if you take away their tutorial then what will they do. We'd have to listen to them complain how hard the game is and that there's no tutorial.

Dasale, How is Avadon it look's interesting and i'm a big fan of tb combat?

Couchpotato said:

I'm still waiting for a fox news report about the witcher 2. There still up in arms about Duke Nukem Forever. Not counting the petitions to ban the game from women.

Click to expand...

Here's a link to the controversy about Duke Nuken Forever.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011...mes-capture-babe-mode-players-slapping-women/

On topic:

To me, combat in the first Witcher was and is repetitive. monsters, especially drowners, bloodzuiger etc. constantly respawning. And at least in one instance (in the crypt) did enemies appear out of thin air - it just made more sense here because they actually rose from the ground...

Playing on easy difficulty makes, at least for me, the combat in first Witcher game, a QTE event. I mean, I click on an enemy or a monster, then Geralt does his thing - and sometimes I have no control over what he's doing. Amazing to see, but I don't feel like I'm in control of the combat.

sakichop said:

I agree i'm not a big fan of the beginning being a tutorial but i'm not sure how else they would introduce players to new games.

It seems many people already find rpg's too complex if you take away their tutorial then what will they do. We'd have to listen to them complain how hard the game is and that there's no tutorial.

Click to expand...

The first point is I don't think Avadon or The Witcher are complicated games. I mean what could be complicated like classes, inventory managing, shortcuts or crafting need an excellent in game information but not a tutorial. Moreover that's a dangerous approach. If I stop played Avadon at my first attempt, and didn't came back to it until a long time it's a lot because of this tutorial approach. Also it's clear that at first many players get disgusted by the Witcher long and tedious introduction tutorial. And in end many players didn't get help with this tutorial, aries100 comment just above show that tutorial or not some players just didn't get into the special fight system.

If I remember well The Witcher team realized only late that many newbie players didn't understood the fights and in hurry decided make a tutorial with the first part. But the result is a long boring tutorial diluted along a long introduction that become totally wasted by the tutorial approach.

For Avadon I'd say it's better done but the controlled complexity progression is quite obvious. The first dungeon is clearly linearized for no necessity but not lost a newbie in a too open dungeons. But this dungeon introduction is so badly done with doors that are closed and get opened with no story logic. The point was probably to setup in first dungeon a fight difficulty increase, so still a tutorial approach, alas it's too obvious and waste a lot of the mood in this first dungeon.

To list alternate solutions the best would be to check games where it's been well done. I don't remember well so my point is first that this should be avoided. But I can throw some random suggestions, quote that some are just stolen from Avadon that includes good points:

• First don't design at all the game beginning with a tutorial approach in mind.
• To be sure to keep player in, make your game captivating, intriguing and attaching since the first seconds, it's a challenge but it's possible and the best way to keep in a player.
• Design the game with a care of interface clarity. That depends of the game type I'll give some example further.
• Escape is an universal key, it should bring some more general menu. Includes a help option in first menu options.
• Help should lead to a short summarize of game main commands, it should includes a link to a short independent interactive tutorial. And a link or be included in a short help encyclopedia.
• For the help encyclopedia:
  • Keep short the list of sections, includes a good search system if the game is really too complicated.
  • Don't include any game elements like classes details, weapons details or anything, game tips, just focus on controls explanation.
  • Don't mix the game encyclopedia and the help encyclopedia.
• For the out of game tutorial:
  • Implement a very very short interactive tutorial that could be triggered at any point and with no link with the story.
  • Implement only a very very short one, not to cover everything but only the main less obvious points.

sakichop said:

Dasale, How is Avadon it look's interesting and i'm a big fan of tb combat?

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I played only few hours of the game, so I can't really comment it fairly. But I'll put a first impressions list in the Avadon thread in game section:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1061065128&postcount=4