The RPG is dead... long live the RPG?

I've just gotten back into NWN2, and it's... decent.

I recently played Jade Empire, and it was... OK.

I played a bunch of NWN1 premium modules (WCoC, DoD, that pirate thingy), and they were... well, nice.

I replayed Fallout, and it was three parts brilliant, one part annoying, tedious, and frustrating. And it engaged my imagination just like I remembered it.

Not too long ago, I played Planescape: Torment. To misquote someone else, it was like swimming laps in a cesspool with a shot of heroin at each end. By now, I've mostly forgotten about the cesspool, but am still jonesing for the heroin.

Thing is, over the past couple of years, a few games have grabbed my imagination by the short-and-curlies the same way that Fallout and PS:T did. Only one was a cRPG's, and that one used a first/third person perspective and combat mechanics -- and would have been a much better game had these things been done better.

There's Rome: Total Realism.

There's S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

There's The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay.

And there's Vampire: The Masquerade -- Bloodlines.

Now I'm seriously looking forward to Bioshock, considering Overlord, probably going to buy Crysis once that's out.

What's more, after these games, the classic RPG mechanic of top-down view and abstract combat feels tedious and stale. At the gameplay level, I want either solid, adrenaline-pumping first-person action, or solid, intelligent tactical gaming, I don't care if it's real-time or turn-based.

However, that's not enough. The thing that grabs my imagination is the illusion of choice: the feeling that I, the player, can make choices that genuinely affect the storyline and the world around me, and that I care about the world and the storyline enough that the consequences matter to me.

Half-Life 2, DOOM 3, and Far Cry didn't really do that much for me because they were basically corridor shooters -- a glorified obstacle course. Butcher Bay did, because it had genuinely memorable characters that adjusted their attitudes to you depending on what you did -- even if the actual storyline was just about as linear.

The other games on the list were more and more open, down to Rome: Total Realism that had no characters at all but an intricate, unbelievably detailed world that my choices molded into one form or another.

This feeling is what I look for in cRPG's -- because it was the genre willing to concentrate on content over fancy explosions.

However, lately there have been non-RPG's that have the same kick, without RPG mechanics, but with more intense gameplay. And a wider appeal to boot.

So, are RPG's dead? If so, will the things that made RPG's great seep through into other genres? If NWN2 was the last, great top-down RTwP spreadsheet-tweakin' monty-haulin' cRPG, will the gaming world be worse for it?

A while back I would have lamented their passing. Now I'm not so sure.

I would lament their passing... but with hundreds of old CRPGs on my shelves that I can replay any time I want... that lament would be short-lived and non-life-changing.

I agree with you that there are games out there that give you that feeling of choice/importance/freedom that aren't CRPGs... and I really enjoy them too. But I will always have a hankering (what a word) for a good stat-crunching, story driven, bloody, RPG.

I have also said before that the reinvisioned versions of yesterday's games are coming to todays handhelds tomorrow! Things like Etrian Odyssey, Dungeon Maker, D&D Tactics, and on and on ...

It's a pretty solid truth--as well as a cliche--that all life is change. Nothing alive stays in a static state for long.

To me NWN2 was a good example of a nostalgia rpg that tried hard and occasionally succeeded at reviving the essence of what used to be. Unfortunately, it diluted its impact and became much less of an rpg by trying to encorporate graphics and cinematics that used valuable resources to make the game prettier while the actual mechanics suffered. It left me with frustrations and an end-of-an-era type of feeling, but I am glad they made it and hope it will continue on as sort of an Undead RPG movement.

I think your point about paying less attention to genre definitions and just looking for outstanding games is quite valid. The rpg elements that made games addictive and involving are still in use(sure, occasionally mis-use or over-use but still very vitally there) and I think what they bring to games falling between the definitions is what will make for the rpg of the future.

I've recently started playing all the old RPGs residing on my gaming shelves..i suppose it's no coincidence.
I live in hope that the 'old style' RPGs will make a comeback one day though.

Join the club, heh.

So many recent RPGs had one or two things going for them but overall were average at best. In my opinion the main thing dragging RPGs down is their lack of challenge.

Most are cakewalks - at no time do I feel like any skill on my part affects the outcome of battles in most current RPGs, they were just there to make the games feel longer.

Console RPGs are notorious for this but that's what I expect from those and the battles are usually quicker but for PC RPGs I expect difficult, tactical combat that makes use of all my party member's different skills/abilities.

Another thing is the long list of cliches repeated in every game, nothing original in way of storyline or writing. In a way KoTor succeded in bringing something that was fresh to RPGs with it's setting and story.

It also had excellent writing but again was bogged down by lame difficulty, a long list of skills that didn't really make much difference, some bland area design and a very linear experience.

NWN 2 does a decent job of entertaining and has good writing in it as well (no surprise, KoTor 2 also by Obsidian Ent. had great dialogue) but could it be any easier? Or "by-the-book"? Or annoying, with it's fussy camera, frustrating inventory system and silly group AI?

And Morrowind...the one game that to me has the coolest most original atmosphere and setting...this one has a bunch of flaws the biggest having to do with what I loved the most: NPCs that stand around all day and have nothing original to say really kill the immersion factor brought on by the atmospheric setting. And of course the game world wasn't really dynamic and quests were repetetive and simple. Combat was a yawn fest as well.

But how frustrating was it that instead of taking what worked in Morrowind and expanding on it Bethesda chose to streamline and simplify the sequel even more? Along with this we were taken from a truly unique and alien looking world to a more "standard medieval" landscape and given a most uninspired main quest.

I want an RPG that won't insult my intelligence, one that will punish me for making dumb decisions, one that will provoke thought and keep me guessing until the end, one with varying and useful skills, unique items, distinctive settings.

And guess what? It doesn't have to be all that, at least make an RPG that will be so much FUN (something left out of most modern RPGs) that it will keep me up late at night wanting to finish it.

There are many RPG mix with something in game dev a moment... Is it undesirable for you? Don't take me by the throat, but check this out - http://whitegold-game.com/ or http://precursors-game.com/eng/
What are you thinking about that?