Why do people that ?

Hello, everyone.

Today I found a story that I found most shocking.

One version of it can be found here :

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-myspace16-2008may16,0,3642392.story

This is the foregoing story : http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-myspace22nov22,0,6270775.story


I do wonder why people do that ? Boredom ? Just because they can ?

I'm seriously shocked. I hope that the responsible persons get punished for what they did.


Alrik

This is a deeply disturbing story. I've followed it since it broker earlier this year. I'm glad in one sense that SOMEONE is going after her, but I think the feds are really reaching with how they've done it.

And while the myspace aspect of it might be new, this whole concept of people getting overbearingly involved in their kids lives with tragic consequences is hardly new. I remember when I was in Texas, some woman tried to hire a hitman to kill the mother of one of her daughter's classmates so that her daughter would be assured of a spot on the cheerleading squad! Amazing.


I'd be interested to hear from our friends here if this is unique to the US, or if it is a worldwide thing.

Personally, I don't know of similar things here.

But we have our own problems, too ...

This is a genuinely creepy story, and every time I think about the numerous advantages and benefits of the internet, I have to remind myself that it has, not just the dark side of porn and illegal traffickings in everything from guns to people, but also the ability to be an enabler of the truly psychotic.

I also am curious about whether this is just an American phenomonen. I hope not.

I don't know if it did but it can happen anywhere. I've been in a situation where my daughter was bullied on the internet and really considered to pay the girls doing that back by doing the same thing to them. As a parent I wanted to protect my daughter and considered that as an option. I didn't, as it was a step I couldn't make, but I can imagine parents who can't restrain themselves and go that way. And even though I can imagine it, I find it highly unacceptable to do so, which is why I didn't.
She told us what happened to her, for which we a grateful, many children wouldn't. We resolved the issue by talking to the other children and their parents which stopped the bullying.

All in all I would be amazed if this sort of thing only happened in the USA.

It happens everywhere, as does normal bullying. I used to think it was only guys who were into bullying, but I have learnt that girls are even worse. It has become one of the major contributors to the current high level of teenage suicide!!

Girls are - I think - more skilled in psychological bullying.

Yep--a friend once said, men hit with their fists, women use words. Pretty true.

magerette said:

Yep--a friend once said, men hit with their fists, women use words. Pretty true.

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This is unfortunately all to true for me. Still I can supress the itch to use my fists most of the time. Not so a month ago when some cardriver thought he could push me and my bycicle of the road. I punched the glass of the sidewindow out. Ok I didn't use my fists on him and I didn't mean to punch it out (I wanted to tick on his window), but this shows that I'm still not in full control of myself.

magerette said:

Yep--a friend once said, men hit with their fists, women use words. Pretty true.

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Yep but sometimes women's words control men's fists.

POLYGON said:

Yep but sometimes women's words control men's fists.

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Yes, I think that was her point at the time she said that--we were discussing an abusive relationship. There's definitely some cause and effect going on, I agree.

Speaking to Bartacus now--I've also experienced that level of anger. But there's a difference between losing your temper and engaging in the calculated, premeditated bullying campaign discussed by the OP. I try to think of that kind of exhausting adrenalin-fueled 'road rage' kind of incident as wasted energy over people that only affect you for a few minutes out of your life.

Then I give them some rude hand signs.

Just to add my two cents. Humans are cruel to begin with, through some sort of religion or education then they can become more civilized. This story doesn't really affect me at all anymore because I had a friend commit suicide. Her boyfriend left her after she got pregnant. So in one foul swoop she is all alone with her baby and not her boyfriend. She called us a few times to help out and we came a running. But in the end it didn't matter. She committed suicide all by herself. She called a friend of mine and told her she was feeling a lot better now and was thinking about how to get back into high school. (She's been gone for about a month) Anyways, that was the last we ever heard from her. She downed a whole tons of different bottles, but from what they said it was mostly very potent sleeping pills with a vodka chasers and that was it. I had always thought that a myth until that day.

Anyways after that your view on life changes. I started hating her for taking the easy way out and leaving us to deal with this shit we call life. It was always easier with her around. She was crass and funny (in her own way) but man she was a friend.

So now when I see these kids commit suicide the first thing I ask is what about the people you left behind? Isn't that just the most selfish act on earth that anyone could do. They leave us alone now to deal with what comes next.

So I have no sympathy for the daughter or the parents or even the people who pretended to be the boyfriend. I had to take a hard look on my life after that and my dad drinking himself to death. My conclusion is if they are too weak and selfish to live in this world we call hell. The solution is simple then stop being so damn weak and take a fight for a change. God it makes me sick these people who only care about themselves and not about who they leave behind to deal with the aftermath.

Ehhh...That's my 2cnts on this. Hope I didn't offend anyone's sensibilities with a personal tragedy but every time I see this nonsense I want to scream "Grow a backbone and stick up for yourself". Sure I've considered suicide and gone so far as to get the bottles of sleeping pills that I think will do the job. But in the end I think, Life is what you make out of it. It can be hell or heaven. If I kill myself now, who knows what's waiting on the other side, could be Nirvana, Heaven, Hell or you come back again as another creature. But why take that chance when I have loved ones here with me now, that care about me and want to help me.

Once again sorry but this subject it is near and dear to my heart and everyone going boo hoo for the girl who killed herself should take a long look into why she killed herself over a "cyberboy" She either didn't have the mental facilities to survive very long on Earth anyways or was just flat out weak. With some counciling and real help from her parents this might of been avoided.

Oh well sorry about the long rant into on of my darker days of growing up.

skavenhorde said:

Once again sorry but this subject it is near and dear to my heart and everyone going boo hoo for the girl who killed herself should take a long look into why she killed herself over a "cyberboy" She either didn't have the mental facilities to survive very long on Earth anyways or was just flat out weak. With some counciling and real help from her parents this might of been avoided..

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Ah yes, of course that must be it. Because she doesn't have the same backbone as you have its just good that we got rid of her.

skavenhorde said:

She either didn't have the mental facilities to survive very long on Earth anyways or was just flat out weak.

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Sure you're no Nazi ? Because Neonazis would say the same.

People learn. She didn't learn enough, she didn't learn fast enough. So that's the only reason for you to say it's okay that she killed herself ?

And the people who did this to her - they shall go free, unharmed, because they managed to get the world rid of someone who was too weak anyway ?

Your reputation just fell down many, many stairs in my view.

Alrik Fassbauer said:

Sure you're no Nazi ? Because Neonazis would say the same.

People learn. She didn't learn enough, she didn't learn fast enough. So that's the only reason for you to say it's okay that she killed herself ?

And the people who did this to her - they shall go free, unharmed, because they managed to get the world rid of someone who was too weak anyway ?

Your reputation just fell down many, many stairs in my view.

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I tell you what my friend, you have two people in your life kill themselves, one really quick and one a slow death through alcohol. You go through that and then come back and call me a nazi for hating them that they were too weak to stay in this world with me. I've lost more loved ones now and I'm only 32 years old. My father, one of my best friends and lastly my grandmother who took care of me when my dad was gone and mother was off in Arizona. Out of all those that have left this world my grandmother is the only one that didn't have a choice.

So I'm sorry if I don't meet your high standards of having to say "Oh poor child, such a mean thing that person drove her to do." Wrong! If she thought about it for a second she would realize it is one of THE MOST selfish and evil act that anyone, on this merry-go-round called life, can do. For example watch your father drink bottles and bottles of Vodka a day and try to hide them from him. So then he just goes out and buys more. Watch him slowly kill himself until he is hospitalized, watch his skin and eyes become bright yellow when he does try to quit, then he starts up again, watch how no matter what you say to him he doesn't listen, watch as he comes back from the hospital and needs a liver transplant that he won't get because he is on the bottom of this list, watch as he falls down on the way into the house because he is too weak to walk properly, watch as he slowly gets weaker and weaker until he has a hard time getting off the sofa except to find his bottles of booze, watch as you have to take him to the hospital for the last time, watch as YOU and your brother and sister are forced to make the call and "pull the plug" and then slowly watch his life drain out, feel nothing when he dies right in front of you and think that you should be crying like your brother and sister, think what is wrong with you because you can't cry until one day three or four months later you're driving to see your mom and the song "Sober" from Tool pops up on the radio and you have to pull over because finally you emotionaly break down, feel an aching loss that can never be filled again, feel that what a shame your father will never see you become a man and stand up on your own two feet, get married and have children. This is just a short summary of what happened for 2 years straight. My friend you watch and feel all of this and then come back with your high and mighty attitude. Calling me a nazi the nerve.

That was my father now how about my best friend. This one was over with quick. She would call us up after and ask us to come over because she was depressed and we did. We all tried to help, the whole gang of us. We thought she was doing it for attention sometimes but seriously we didn't care because she was the coolest one out of all of us. We tried talking with her and it seemed to help. But one day poof she is gone. Just like that. So how about you lay off the politics for a change, not call me a damn nazi and realize that the reason I feel this way is because I have first hand experienced it for myself TWICE!!!

Now do you understand why I think this way? Why suicide is easy for the person doing it but leaves a horrible scar on your loved ones that never heals. So tell me sir how is that a Nazi? and don't give me this BS that suicide isn't easy. It's easy to call it quits and start over. The heroes of this world are the ones that choose to perserve not the ones that choose to take the easy way out.

Were you drinking last night or something when you read my post? That I could understand but Nazi.....You know what if you have gone through this and still feel sorry for that girl then your a better man than I. For I will never forgive anyone or feel sorry for anyone who has taken the easy way out.

Myrthos said:

Ah yes, of course that must be it. Because she doesn't have the same backbone as you have its just good that we got rid of her.

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Missed my point entirely, but whatever. It's not about having backbone it's about not hurting the ones you love! Period.

Vhoa.
So much hate for a desperate, pubescent kid, Skaven. Puberty is a very difficult time for some folks, and getting bullied doesn't exactly help.
If somebody bullied my kid to death - cyber or not -, I'd probably donate some money to a psyched-out war veteran from a country with a nasty civil war in its recent history and see what they could do to help me... provided I didn't meet the offender in a dark alley lined by garbage cans before that.

Skaven, I'm not going to offer any words of comfort for the obvious pain you feel; they wouldn't help while everything is still so raw and you wouldn't appreciate them. In some ways, I agree with the basis of your point; suicide is a selfish act which often devastates the people left behind. However, I don't believe people who commit suicide are necessarily weak; they're mostly sick, desperate and in some ways, in as much 'pain' as you are. Yes, it's wrong, but unfortunately, they don't see it that way. I could argue quite logically and reasonably that people who smoke are actually committing SLOW suicide, but my arguments have never convinced anyone to quit; it's the same thing!!

this isn't a dig just a
"please explain the double standard" moment
how can someone be so vehemently against suicide by the average troubled sole but have nirvana as one of their favourite bands!?!?!
ohh the irony...

while i find suicide to be one of the most selfish acts a person can commit, i can totally understand, as that is the point: feelings of no hope and the only 'power' some people wind up believing they have is to just end it. but really the amount of lack of conscience thought that goes into so many peoples decisions daily this really isn't any more horrific. what is though is the steady increase in them in the recent years. the amount of us veterens alone taking their lives each month is enough to make you ill if you read about it.

again like most 'human made' epidemics, there is really no one person to blame, and theres countless victims. what doesn't help though is empty love affairs with rockstars, athletes, actors, celeberties who live shiny empty lives, crash through life more than a drunk on a unicycle, and are simply tinder for the celebrity pornographic media complex. *ok i need a glass of water, i'm begining to taste the bile.

skavenhorde said:

Missed my point entirely, but whatever. It's not about having backbone it's about not hurting the ones you love! Period.

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Actually I think I do understand your point. But what I read from it is that it is all about you!
In general I belief people commit suicide because they are convinced there is no other option left. For them life is unbearable. With proper medical care it might be possible to convince them otherwise. But then again, maybe not. If that person can't be helped in any way, why should that person have to live a life she/he is convinced to be unbearable? How does one balance the pain of that person against the pain of those left behind? Why is one more important than the other?
Skavenhorde, I know nothing about the people you mentioned, so I feel in no position to form an opinion about them. Your post is however about how much it hurts you, not about how much the friend you are missing now was hurt by staying alive. It seems arrogant to me that you value your pain higher than hers.

I firmly belief that anyone is entitled to decide if they want to stay alive or not. I do think it should be a last resort, but when it comes down to it, it is their choice to make and nobody else.

First just want to apologize for going a bit overboard. This will sound stupid and inane but I never talked about that to anyone, ever. Not my mom, grandma, brother, sister or friends. I guess I really wanted to make you guys understand that I didn't think this way just because I think I'm better than anyone else ( if you really knew me, you would be laughing you butt off right now) but I wanted to convey what experiences led me to that type of attitude. It didn't help being called a Nazi Once I started writing about the slow death of my dad I just couldn't stop. It's been over a decade since he died and didn't realize how much it still hurts. I was a little surprised how I could recall almost every single detail in those two years after my dad was "laid off" from Hughes Aircraft. Funny my friends death was short but dad's was hell on Earth for a long time.

Also sorry to Alrik and Myrthos. I guess I didn't explain my thinking clearly enough in the first post and it did sound like I had a holy than thou attitude. It's funny, I think this is the first time the "Big dog" Myrthos responded to one of my posts and it was to call me an idiot lol.

Jaz said:

Vhoa.
So much hate for a desperate, pubescent kid, Skaven. Puberty is a very difficult time for some folks, and getting bullied doesn't exactly help.

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According to this thread http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3678&highlight=personality+testmost most of us are introverted, typical personality associated with our given genre I would guess, yet we all managed to come through high school alive. Personally. I barely made it through, but I did in the end with some help from a shrink and my friends.

As you can maybe tell in the previous post, I didn't really have much help from my family. That didn't come until later with my grandma. Mom was too busy with work and boyfriends (divorced) and Dad was an hour's drive away and too busy being a big shot at Hughes (didn't move back in with him till after I left High School). Point being here is that if someone like me can make it then anyone can, it just takes the will to live. Even if life is hell and everyday you wake up and beat yourself up about the stupid things you've done or said, you have to keep going because the alternative is too horrible to do.

I don't hate this girl, neither do I feel sorry for her. When I talked about hating them I was talking more about my friend and dad, at the same time I don't feel sorry or pity her either. She made her choice. Her choice was the selfish one. She cared more about someone that she met online than she cared about her other friends or family. Lets face it folks the world isn't rainbows and lollipops. There are cruel people out there. It seems like the older I get the more cynical of the human race I become. Sure there are good people in the world that care about their fellow man and environment but it just seems to me that there are far too many more cruel people in it. That doesn't make it okay for people to be cruel to one another it's just a fact of life. Especially, living in a free society where you are allowed freedom of speech. I'm not going to go into the whole debate on freedom vs censorship, it's just reality.

Corwin said:

Skaven, I'm not going to offer any words of comfort for the obvious pain you feel; they wouldn't help while everything is still so raw and you wouldn't appreciate them. In some ways, I agree with the basis of your point; suicide is a selfish act which often devastates the people left behind. However, I don't believe people who commit suicide are necessarily weak; they're mostly sick, desperate and in some ways, in as much 'pain' as you are. Yes, it's wrong, but unfortunately, they don't see it that way. I could argue quite logically and reasonably that people who smoke are actually committing SLOW suicide, but my arguments have never convinced anyone to quit; it's the same thing!!

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I had to mention awhile that I smoked, didn't I I knew that would come back and bite me in the ass. As for the pain being still so raw and fresh, even I didn't realize that until I decided (on a whim I normally avoid these discussions like the plague because I always get my butt kicked in them or at least in politics and religion I do, stupid "off topic" made it seem safe to comment) to check out "Why do people that?" lol Seemed safe enough, I figured it was something stupid about silly things people do. After I got done reading all the responses, the one thing that kept entering my mind was what about the people left behind. What are they nothing to her? All this talk about the poor girl and then the response by the community. Ok, the mob has been appeased now that the evil doer has been punished and the politicians have their brand spanking new law. What about what the girl did? Is she not to blame at all or are we just going to say poor girl, she was depressed and she was forced to commit suicide because of that bad person. Call me evil/cynical/warped/grumpy whatever but the fact is that woman didn't didn't put a gun to her head, what she did was horrible and disgusting but still she didn't pull the trigger.

As far as being sick, there are lots of people who deal with depression or being sick yet stick around. This once again may be a harsh way of saying it but the alternative once again is more horrible.

curiously undead said:

this isn't a dig just a
"please explain the double standard" moment
how can someone be so vehemently against suicide by the average troubled sole but have nirvana as one of their favourite bands!?!?!
ohh the irony...

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Love the band, think the singer was an idiot. You really want irony try this one on for size. The person who introduced me to grunge rock and other bands like Nirvana, NIN, Ministry, The Cramps, Ska (can't remember the name of any Ska bands right now), Skinny Puppy (Never understood the why people liked them, sounded like overrated noise to me), misfits etc... was her. She even convinced me to dye my hair blue and get a Mohawk in the 10th grade.

Sorry, that isn't so much irony as it is just what she meant to me. So to conclude this rather long (less rantish) post. It's easy to feel sorry for anyone who kills themselves because we can say they were depressed or poor them they couldn't deal with the hardships of life, but in the end if even one person cares for you and you kill yourself, then you will destroy a part of your loved one forever. Now tell me that isn't selfish and cruel and I'll tell you about how I broke down just writing this stupid post.