Puzzle Quest Fight system is weird

D

Dasale

SasqWatch
Joined
October 14, 2007
Messages
3,258
I'm playing Puzzle Quest and I'm surprised it received so many positive feedback. I don't want detail other than fight system but overall it's unimpressive and quite kiddie.

But I wonder what people find fun in a fight system where random has such an importance. I understand spells/items/mounts choices counterbalance somehow the randomness. But seriously that works only because lost a battle has no consequence, you just try again, no reload and no penalty, and you win with a bit more luck than previous time. Without such weird and kiddie approach the high random would show clearly how flawed is this fight system.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
3,258
It's a casual game. That is your answer. If you want more then play Witcher.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Messages
5,347
Location
Taiwan
There is actually a lot of skill involved, but if it has to explained, you won't really get it!!
 
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
12,828
Location
Australia
Yes? Then common don't make your "guy to smart for other people" try explain to the poor guys. In fact I think you aren't so smart than you think or to say it more kindly I didn't explained me well.

It's quite clear that there plenty tactic in this system but huge random too. The strongest moves comes from random tiles coming from above. One lucky move like that can end in 30 damages when about 6 is more the standard. The special honor moves with a series a strokes can only happen from random tiles coming from above. That is enough to largely destroy this system. Show me the next three rows coming from above and I could change my point of view, otherwise I doubt you can find any counter argument.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
3,258
Eventually, you'll get to the point where you're skillful enough that you'll be able to increase the chances of getting "lucky" while reducing the chances of your opponent getting similarly "lucky". To my lights, it's not luck if you can largely control it. It's more a case of experience than brains, but that's what Corwin is referring to.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
13,548
Location
Illinois, USA
Ok but still your control is relative. Lost a fight because of bad luck can still happen and too often.

I recently met a case, it was quite risky to do a move because of the chance of getting something bad from the random coming from above. Instead I cast a spell for its effect and let opponent do the bad move... he did and get lucky move with high effect.

Bad design for me. It's the very classical bad design of chaotic games. It's fine to have random but not that one random event have a huge effect, that is chaos theory and that's poor design for a strategy/tactic game.

EDIT: That said if you have a nice url with some strategy and tactics listed for this game, please post it.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
3,258
Dasale said:
Yes? Then common don't make your "guy to smart for other people" try explain to the poor guys. In fact I think you aren't so smart than you think or to say it more kindly I didn't explained me well.

It's quite clear that there plenty tactic in this system but huge random too. The strongest moves comes from random tiles coming from above. One lucky move like that can end in 30 damages when about 6 is more the standard. The special honor moves with a series a strokes can only happen from random tiles coming from above. That is enough to largely destroy this system. Show me the next three rows coming from above and I could change my point of view, otherwise I doubt you can find any counter argument.
Click to expand...

Armageddon Empires is all about random events. So are all roguelikes. Are these games too difficult for you?

More likely you just don't like these types of games. Which is understandable if you had not taken the holy than thou attitude.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Messages
5,347
Location
Taiwan
Rogue like game, the best are exactly not that, the high random seems to have a huge effect for newbie but the experimented know that if a sword is lost it's not end game because the game is deep enough to offer you alternate ways.

I'm surprised you don't see the difference with such games and chaotic games.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
3,258
I'm surprised you actually said that. Roguelikes are all about random events. That's what makes it great. I'm not talking negatively here. It's a freaking positive.

The items you get are all random. Hell when you first start out they are all random. The color of potions and their effects are random. That is what makes those games great. They have one of the best random generators. Not just for dungeons. There are random generators for items, for monsters for basically everything.

I'm very surprised you think that it's not.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Messages
5,347
Location
Taiwan
I think you should try make your own rogue and discover it's not that sample than pure random otherwise anybody could design such stuff. Can't you agree on that? Can't you agree that a very good rogue like can't be based only on pure random?

You can have oriented random for diversity not to implement the chaos effect ie one random event with a huge effect. I'm not complaining about random but only about that.

I'm amazingly surprised you cannot get it and see how different it is, that's weird.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
3,258
The random chance imo is kinda what can make the game so fun and addictive, thats one of the core elements of the game. Kinda like rolling dice. Isnt that element of luck or chance a welcome thing in much of rpg-dom?

There's an iphone version too that's got me playing again!
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
5,228
Location
San Diego, Ca
Lol when you have the mass in front of you the only logical conclusion is that you are wrong. Well perhaps except that I know so well that it's not only love that make blind but friendship too.

I'm probably wrong or explain it very badly but is nobody here can make the difference between random and random with a huge effect?

EDIT: And about random to bring diversity, Puzzle Quest is a rather bad example of this. I played 2 characters to level 15 and saw how non diversified it is to replay it.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
3,258
Action RPGs are kind of random, too. I mean, the stuff that you find or the stuff the enemies drop. Sometimes even random which kind of enemies you discover (speaking of so-called "unique monsters" in D2).

So - the randomness in Action-RPGs is elsewhere. It is *not* within the battle itself, it lies within the finding of stuff and whatnot,
whereas in Puzzle Quest the radomness lies *not* in what kind of stuff you find, but rather within the battle itself.

It's just a change of perspective, imho.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
21,964
Location
Old Europe
Right that's the main reason explaining why the random in Puzzle Quest is rather sterile and don't help at all increasing the replay value (some other elements does like very few alternate quests choices and some classes differences).

Still it's fighting system is chaotic and don't bring much in a tactical game.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
3,258
There is actually a little bit tactics involved. Like "what kind of chain reaction will happen if the AI does this move ?" and "can I force the AI into making a certain move ?" This needs a *lot* of thinking forwards in time, though.

However, the randomness factor is much, much bigger than in normal RPGs.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
21,964
Location
Old Europe
There is A LOT OF TACTIC involved I never denied it, and yes I see some opportunities like you quote because the AI is rather easy to predict (not a bad point in a complex game). Still there's this chaos behavior and yes it's much bigger than usual, in fights, and for a reason in my point of view, weak design for a tactical game.

Interesting to quote how chaos event in CD&D games had gradually disappeared. For a reason, bad design. A sample of this was the random HP rules that disappeared.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
3,258
Dasale said:
I think you should try make your own rogue and discover it's not that sample than pure random otherwise anybody could design such stuff. Can't you agree on that? Can't you agree that a very good rogue like can't be based only on pure random?

You can have oriented random for diversity not to implement the chaos effect ie one random event with a huge effect. I'm not complaining about random but only about that.

I'm amazingly surprised you cannot get it and see how different it is, that's weird.
Click to expand...

No, I can't agree with anything you say because it's nuts. It's not pure random in rogues and not pure random in Puzzle Quest. It's just random according to a set of rules. Like when you throw a six sided dice you won't get a 20. You'll get something between 1 - 6.

That doesn't really matter. I'm done debating this with you. You've insulted me twice now. If I continued I'm sure you would keep making your snide little remarks. Have fun insulting people. I know you probably are.

My last piece of advice would be to play something else if you don't like Puzzle Quest.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Messages
5,347
Location
Taiwan
skavenhorde said:
No, I can't agree with anything you say because it's nuts. It's not pure random in rogues and not pure random in Puzzle Quest. It's just random according to a set of rules. Like when you throw a six sided dice you won't get a 20. You'll get something between 1 - 6.
Click to expand...
Lol that's quite naive, I'm sure you'll consider this as an insult but what can I say about such a simplistic view of random in games. I won't bother attempt explain you because you wrote you have stop talking with me, fine I don't care, or are you consider this are insulting too?
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
3,258
Sorry you're not enjoying it. Different strokes for different folks.... If you've ever played an RPG using dice, you've had experiences where the random event has a major effect, just like Sammy pointed out. Roll a 1 on a saving throw where you only needed a 2? Get 18(00) strength on an honest 1-attempt roll? Have the DM roll a 17 on a routine random magic loot check and get to the Artifacts table (showing my AD&D roots)?

If you don't like the game, don't play it. Not gonna hurt anyone's feelings around here, even though many of us had a blast with the game. Definitely don't buy the followup, Galactrix, because the apparent influence of luck is even higher for inexperienced players.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
13,548
Location
Illinois, USA
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom