KoA: Reckoning - "comparable in size" to Oblivion and More

Did you guys see that map ? Its huge ! Im sold, this game is the first out of the box for them under there new company so they have somthin to prove. Every game site is comparing this game to fable or Skyrim because thats what every kid and there mom knows. Its more comparisent to Two Worlds or Divinity 2. Who knows this game might just blow Skyrim away.

Dhruin said:

How about a Divinity II with much larger areas, much better developed lore and factions and better combat? All in theory, of course.

Click to expand...

Judging by the in-game map I´d say it would be somewhat more precise to say the game has larger game world, not areas.
KoA´s lore is very likely more in-depth, but it doesn´t necessarily mean it´s interesting and there´s also a question how well/interestingly the various elements are tied together. Personally, I dislike the fact player can finish all faction quest chains in one playthrough and it also suggests, along with the main quest supposedly being pretty much a straightforward major choices-free affair, the game is lacking in interconnectedness department. I´m not saying Divinity II is any different in this, just taking this opportunity to point this quite likely characteristic out.
Better combat is a possibility, though even here I already dislike some stuff related to it, namely art direction and QTE finishers. However, I like that enemies have weaknesses and resistances against various effects and character development system seems robust, which is basically why I´m interested in this game.
Speaking of comparisons with Divinity II, KoA´s limited freedom of movement is a major difference which I´m pretty sure will make playing the game feel very different.
Larger-than-life feeling Divinity II provides will likely not be there, at least out of combat.
On a less serious note, one of the major aspects of Divinity II is its humor and no game without it or with the same quality of it can be called Divinity-like, as far as I´m concerned .

skavenhorde said:

I wonder if anyone even tries to enjoy games anymore or if all they enjoy doing is just bitching about how it's "not like this" or "why can't I do this" or all the rest of the crap that people will complain about.

Click to expand...

Not everyone has such low standards as you .
I, for one, prefer when I can enjoy a game naturally, without having to try.

rune_74 said:

I don't think it even comes down to the game itself anymore, it can be just a company or where the game is made. Some people will overlok glaring weaknesses in games from their company or country of choice but apply higher standards to the ones it is vogue to dislike.

Click to expand...

Your usual flamebait aside, for me it´s like this:
Every game has some weaknesses, whether I "overlook" them or not depends on how fundamental I find them and, maybe even more importantly, on a set of what I consider a game´s strengths. For example, I don´t care about Planescape: Torment´s rather weak combat because a) the game isn´t combat-centric and b) I love its setting, characters, story and music. It´s more difficult to "overlook" weak combat in, say, Arcanum because there´s quite a lot of it and it´s even more difficult to do so in, say, Dragon Age 2 because there´s quite a lot of it too and on top of that the game doesn´t really shine in any other department.

In the case of KoA, I find the limited freedom of movement and world design to be fundamental flaws for a supposedly open world game, its story, setting and art direction seem mostly generic to me so far (when it comes to story and setting this outlook might change once more info is available, of course), plus I dislike the game is apparently designed in a way to allow players to experience all its content in one go (non-exclusive factions, availability of respec) so while I mostly like what I´ve seen from its character development system, I´m not yet quite sure if it would be enough to make me "overlook" the other aspects.

DeepO said:

Not everyone has such low standards as you .
I, for one, prefer when I can enjoy a game naturally, without having to try.

Click to expand...

How about standards based in reality? The vocal minority have ridiculously high standards that no one can ever meet. Read the blog entry.

Not all people are like this and some voice valid concerns, but that blog entry from Lenny got me thinking about how much time is spent bitching. Even from me, although my major complaints are about DRM. With games I try to see what was fun about the game as well as what could be better.

And I'm not talking about valid concerns with a game. My "standards" aren't so low that I won't write off a bad games. It's the idiotic bitching about non-issues that is unbelievable.

If you need an example how about the hatred/fanboism for Bethesda. I knock them all the time, but I buy their games and try to give them a chance. If you don't believe me then check out my mile long mod lists for Oblivion. Spent hours trying to tweak that game into something worthwhile and in the end I couldn't do it. I tried though, but with the vocal minority they automatically hate/love anything Bethesda does and FU if you say otherwise. That is the nonsense I'm talking about.

I have no clue as to why any dev would even want to attempt to make a quality RPG anymore. The so called fans sure as hell won't appreciate it.

blackcanopus said:

I try. The last time it tried really hard to enjoy a game was DXHR. And sometimes I think maybe it's me? Maybe I don't want to enjoy games anymore? Maybe the new generation of games is not as crappy as I think? But you know what, it's really difficult to enjoy a game with 4 buttons to choose one of the 4 endings. It really is.

But then again, yeah it's me. I don't try hard enough.

Click to expand...

Oh, it is definitely you.

Games are constantly changing. Partly to meet demands and partly to make use of new technology. They always have been and they always will be.

As long as you're able to adept, you'll be able to continue to enjoy them but as you grow older your adaptability will stagnate and at some point you stop and that's when you'll be left behind. This applies to all aspects of life be it music, games, tv, movies, books or modern appliances like smart phones.

I was, for instance, eager to jump on the email wagon back in the day, but I was completely left behind when it came to chat and SMS (texting) and I can't think of a single use for a smart phone today that I can't do faster/easier/better on a computer.

If in doubt then browse these forums and see how many times comparisons are made to 10-20 year old games like PlaneScape:Torment or the Ultima games. There are MANY of the regulars here who are in the same situation as you are: They stopped being able to (or wanting to) adapt to the changes and are now unable to move past the "good old days" in the 80/90'ies. This is basic human behavior and it happens to us all (just at different times and in different areas).

fatBastard() said:

Oh, it is definitely you.

Games are constantly changing. Partly to meet demands and partly to make use of new technology. They always have been and they always will be.

As long as you're able to adept, you'll be able to continue to enjoy them but as you grow older your adaptability will stagnate and at some point you stop and that's when you'll be left behind. This applies to all aspects of life be it music, games, tv, movies, books or modern appliances like smart phones.

I was, for instance, eager to jump on the email wagon back in the day, but I was completely left behind when it came to chat and SMS (texting) and I can't think of a single use for a smart phone today that I can't do faster/easier/better on a computer.

If in doubt then browse these forums and see how many times comparisons are made to 10-20 year old games like PlaneScape:Torment or the Ultima games. There are MANY of the regulars here who are in the same situation as you are: They stopped being able to (or wanting to) adapt to the changes and are now unable to move past the "good old days" in the 80/90'ies. This is basic human behavior and it happens to us all (just at different times and in different areas).

Click to expand...

Quoted for the truth. I'm the same way nowadays myself. Most games I have to force myself to finish but still find a few to entertain and bring back that old spark.

skavenhorde said:

Read the blog entry.

Click to expand...

The blog entry is rather embarrassing. Personally I don´t consider 5£ to be much, but to me it seems that regular updates with new content/features are effectively part of the price, so I don´t find it unfathomable, at least in principle, that someone complains when feeling the game isn´t getting from its alpha/beta status fast enough. Wanting a refund would be of course less silly if the price was more substantial, but frankly I don´t think it´s as silly as calling one´s customers dickheads.

skavenhorde said:

It's the idiotic bitching about non-issues that is unbelievable.

Click to expand...

I hate to play the subjectivity card, but you don´t decide what is and isn´t a non-issue for anyone other than yourself.

fatBastard() said:

If in doubt then browse these forums and see how many times comparisons are made to 10-20 year old games like PlaneScape:Torment or the Ultima games. There are MANY of the regulars here who are in the same situation as you are: They stopped being able to (or wanting to) adapt to the changes and are now unable to move past the "good old days" in the 80/90'ies. This is basic human behavior and it happens to us all (just at different times and in different areas).

Click to expand...

This is a bit reductionistic, I think.
First, the claim that MANY of the regulars here are "inadaptive" is imo exaggerated since to me it seems like pretty much everyone here enjoyed at least some of the "new-gen" games.
Second, while there´s certainly some truth to the basic behavior stuff you operated with, you completely omitted quality of the games themselves out of the equation as if the "good old days" thing stemmed just from "inadaptiveness" and wearing rose-tinted glasses.
People who played computer games made in 80/90´s just have different pool of games to compare new games with from people who didn´t and since the progress of quality of various design aspects is, well, disputable (certainly more so than, say, progress of quality of graphics), it´s only natural "good old games" are mentioned here quite often.
Plus, of course, there´s also the "classics" thing. There was a lot of mediocre or bad games made in 80/90´s, but I´m pretty sure that in 2011 most people only remember the ones which provided them with remarkable experience, usually the good kind of remarkable .

DeepO said:

but frankly I don´t think it´s as silly as calling one´s customers dickheads.

Click to expand...

It's not so much about the refund as it is the game has been updated time and time again and it looks nothing like it was in the beginning. Yet, that isn't good enough for some people. That is the issue with me.

BTW, just so you know that many devs feel this way or at least the ones that tweeted back to him. Notch is among them. I say good on Lenny for saying something about it. It's ridiculous what people expect. They expect the freaking world for 5 pounds.

I hate to play the subjectivity card, but you don´t decide what is and isn´t a non-issue for anyone other than yourself.

Click to expand...

Didn't read the whole post then huh? The Bethesda hate/fanboism makes sense? You have not a clue as to how I could come to this conclusion? Well you go ahead and play the subjective card. I'll play the I'm sick to death of whiny self-entitled brat card.

If you think I'm being too "subjective" then stop replying to my posts and let me rant in peace. I'm getting my goddamn cane now and going to tell those kids to get off my damn lawn!!!

I've been very interested in this game, since I first heard about it. But I'm at a point now that I know enough that I'm sure to pick it up and give it a try. So I think I'm going to skip as many previews as I can from here on out and simply keep my expectations grounded, my interest high and look forward to stepping to a new world come Feb.

As far as descriptions go, seems to me after viewing & reading info on the game that it's a solid RPG game with lots of characterization/customization and depth…With ARPG combat. A pretty large world to explore, with a lot of gaming hours ahead, especially if one is a explorer/completest type gamer who does their best to tackle all the side quests and areas they can…

Sign me up!!!

ps - see people use the phrase "limited movement" is that reference to not being able to jump or rather something to do with the map/area structure? Just wondering heh

Thx

This is a day one buy for me too, but I still feel free to gripe and fuss about what I don't like I still haven't played Bioshock 1 or 2, ME 1 or 2, or Dragon Age 2, but KoAR will get in front of those games. At least it's more crpg (in my world) than the other's listed. Moving from a replay of 2W2 into Skyrim and finally Reckoning will give me 3 open-world games in a row to savor. Sweet!

From a quick glance at some screen shots, yea, the game does look somewhat goofy in the visuals. But not to the degree that it puts me off being interested. The baseball guy has certainly been able to get some big names into his game studio, which may lead to a good rpg, or not.

Arkadia7 said:

From a quick glance at some screen shots, yea, the game does look somewhat goofy in the visuals. But not to the degree that it puts me off being interested. The baseball guy has certainly been able to get some big names into his game studio, which may lead to a good rpg, or not.

Click to expand...

I wasn't sold till I watched actual in-game footage and read about the character dev. and RPG story/quest depth...

The screen shots alone don't do it justice imo

Roland said:

I wasn't sold till I watched actual in-game footage and read about the character dev. and RPG story/quest depth…

Click to expand...

I lost what little interest I had after watching the actual in-game footage.

Will there be a demo? I may still enjoy this game, but I'd need to test drive it first I think.

I've just finished a marathon 6 week (4+ hrs per day!) playthrough of BG/BG2 + expansions so I'm a bit burned out on RPGs…nah, whom I kidding ;-) Actually back with Portal 2 and enjoying it hugely… but always on the lookout for more RPG tastiness.

Edit: saw some comments above about viewing older games through rose-tinted glasses not evolving etc. I don't enjoy some of the old games I used to love *sniff*. I have tried many newer games, some I liked, some I use dto like and now don't. For me the issue is lack of new ideas or ways or presenting deep and immersive worlds. And streamlining - trying to cater for causual gamers and harder core fans. I don't think you can do both. The games I like most thes edays are ones that do not hold your hand, that have C&C's etc. There are not that many sadly. I've played a few cation titles Dead Space 2, Crysis 2 etc and I enjoyed them somewaht, but take away the cool settings, and they just seem ... too familiar.

skavenhorde said:

Didn't read the whole post then huh?

Click to expand...

I did, but I´m not quite sure how your Bethesda example ties into this.
To the "idiotic bitching about non-issues" bit, to be more precise.

Usually the automatic Bethesda "hateboyism" comes in the form of "The game is shit, because Bethesda made it." posts, but I wouldn´t characterize these types of posts neither as "bitching", nor as "about non-issues" and usually even these throwaway statements have some non-automatic base formed by previous experiences with Bethesda titles. "Fanboy" posts are similar case.

When there is some actual bitching involved, then it´s usually because the one doing the bitching found some issues with a game, however non-issue-y you may find them.

If you feel that Bethesda gets some flak for issues other games get away with, there are other reasons more likely than people just bitching for bitching´s sake.

Bethesda is a big huge developer everyone knows of, so it´s quite natural that feedback will be bigger in absolute numbers, bitching included, than in the case of some more off-radar developers.

Bethesda being as big as it is also bears a secondary influence on other developers who might incorporate some of Bethesda´s games´ features into their own, thinking they´ll sell more. I´m pretty sure quest markers/compass weren´t so widespread before Oblivion. In this case, in a sense bitching about these in a Bethesda thread is bitching at the source. And, well, bitching about a more widespread perceived issue in a Bethesda thread is also a good sorta "tactics" to get more attention to the perceived problem, because more people will read such a thread.

At last, but certainly not least, there´s a sorta contra-move aspect in a lot of Bethesda related bitching, because of the corrupted journalism thing - in previews/reviews journalists often let Bethesda games get away with issues they won´t get away with some lesser developers and this I personally find to be more hurtful than people doing sometimes the opposite on forums.

Bethesda certainly deserves applause for making their games as moddable as they are, but if you consider one´s feedback substantiated only when one waits 2 years for a sufficient pool of mods to be made, then spends days sorting through all these and downloading them and then a weekend installing them, well, I don´t share such sentiment.
Main purpose of computer games is entertainment and when someone pays for a game which then fails to entertain out of the box, one has every right to complain about it, because for that person the product failed at its basic function.

And, well, voicing concerns even before a game is released makes threads like this imo more interesting, at least more so then if they were entirely in unison or empty .

If by "idiotic bitching about non-issues" you meant someone choosing a flaw in some minor element and using it as a base to generalize a whole game being bad, then I´d agree with the "idiotic" qualifier, but that´s not really how your post read and, well, this kind of bitching is pretty rare, at least here.

skavenhorde said:

If you think I'm being too "subjective" then stop replying to my posts and let me rant in peace.

Click to expand...

Hahaha, no way.
(though I´ll probably give Koa threads a rest for a while)