Mass Effect 2 - Review Flood #2

I find fanboi gushing to be a valuable tool in deciding whether a game is good.

Thaurin said:

I find fanboi gushing to be a valuable tool in deciding whether a game is good.

Click to expand...

This can be true if you like the genre of the game. But the problem is when fanboi gushing comes in a review from a professional site, it completely invalidates it. Some objectivity would be good.

Seeing as how it usually includes a certain amount of exaggeration, I don't see it as very accurate measuring stick.

Tom Chick can thank the ME1 Complainers for his complaints with ME2.

Sergius64 said:

This game is simply not an RPG in any way or form.

Click to expand...

While that may be a bit strong. I would say that after playing about 8 hours I have to pretty much agree with you. And its not at all unfair to say that this game has been dumbed down from an already dumbed down rpg into a full on 3rd person shooter with ability powerups. That's fine and I am sure its a great 3rd person shooter, just dont tell me its an rpg.

All of the points that Sergius 64 are dead on. The only thing about ME1 that were really rpg were the character progression and the slightly different paths one could take through a linear storyline. This just takes it the rest of the way.

Moreover, the combat has become much less tactical (and tactical thinking/planning as part of combat is something I also associate with rpgs over action games (as opposed to "tactical" twitch reaction). I ME1 you had a reasonable health bar and you could take some damage/time before dying. If you wanted to heal you had to use up a resource. Now this is just like any other 3rd person console shooter out there. You can take a few hits and you are near death, but then you drop into cover for 3 secs and your back at full health. I know that

As I said before what I am really upset about is the dumbing down of character progresson. I know that this was dumbed down in ME1 and this is probably just being more honest and simplified about what they were doing. But there is really nothing heere about meaningful character progression choices. Hell, i could argue that Bioshock involved more meaningful character choices and was more of an rpg in that sense. Deus Ex was hardcore compared to this.

I've been trying to adapt to the new world and play a broader range of games on consoles and a lot of these are very good games just action/interactive movie games with good production values. But by comparison, that's all this game really is. A well implemented cover shooter with graduated powerups throughout the game. I have played other console games recently that made no pretention to being rpgs that could be argued have more robust character progression or choice.

I am not saying this is not a good game, it clearly is. It's just to me a bit of a letdown in that it doesn't even make any attempts at creating the illusion/delusion that its an rpg.

Since this reviewer says it better than I could, I'll just quote as it echoes my biggest gripe&grumble moment in ME2, the space travel interface and the mini-"game" (or supposed to be) of planetary scans :

2) Space travel
Next time I'm at the helm of a massive space ship, I hope the interface for flying isn't a matter of scooching a teensy ship model around a picture of a nebula so the view scrolls over and I can see where I'm going. I don't know what Bioware was going for here, but every time Shepherd stepped up to that map display to zip around his toy ship, I pictured him making spaceship noises with his mouth. Pretty much what you'd expect from a guy who collects toys, Shenmue style, for his captain's quarters. Worst. Starship interface. Ever.

Click to expand...

k1000 said:

This can be true if you like the genre of the game. But the problem is when fanboi gushing comes in a review from a professional site, it completely invalidates it. Some objectivity would be good.

Click to expand...

JDR13 said:

Seeing as how it usually includes a certain amount of exaggeration, I don't see it as very accurate measuring stick.

Click to expand...

I need to balance it with negative exaggeration, so I find user reviews that are rated 1.0/10 or something similarly stupid. Reading through those 10/10 reviews contrasted with the hater reviews, I get a fairly accurate picture of a game's strenghts and weaknesses. I guess I'm weird that way.

Too bad about the inventory. In Mass Effect I didn't like how everything was just one long list, but that could have been easily fixed with some kind of backpack where you could organize everything.

I should get this by this weekend. Hopefully, it will be here by then.

dagoo7 said:

I am not saying this is not a good game, it clearly is. It's just to me a bit of a letdown in that it doesn't even make any attempts at creating the illusion/delusion that its an rpg.

Click to expand...

But if it's really not an RPG, that's a good thing, isn't it?

Well… if it's a 'dumbed down' RPG maybe it's even more a 'smart shooter'. RPG isn't a synonym of 'quality' anyway (though recent marketing campaigns seem to promote such a view)

I got crap about my Torchlight review for saying it was a success for executing perfectly to their design. I would say the same for Mass Effect 2 - it doesn't want to be bloodlines - nor does it want to be Gears of War ... it wants to be a story driven shooter with RPG elements and that is exactly what it delivers.

Oh ... and achievements every 10 feet ...

holeraw said:

But if it's really not an RPG, that's a good thing, isn't it?

Well… if it's a 'dumbed down' RPG maybe it's even more a 'smart shooter'. RPG isn't a synonym of 'quality' anyway (though recent marketing campaigns seem to promote such a view)

Click to expand...

I wouldn't say it's a good thing as I personally tend to like RPGs, but that beside the point in this case. The point is that both Bioware marketing and half of these "reviewers" call it a RPG hybrid or even in some cases just plain call it an RPG and state that this will be the standard to which future RPGs will aspire to! This is extremely misleading and frankly I'm offended to see that there are so many people out there who have absolutely no understanding of what an RPG is. Its getting to a point that you can't trust reviews to tell you what type of a game it is, you have to go out and research the game on your own.

On another note, the game's story is very good so far, and I do have to praise Bioware for creating this SciFi universe and making it so interactable in these games. As you play ME1 and ME2 you learn more and more about the cool different species and their relationships with other species. On many levels it already far better then Lucas's Star Wars universe.

Sergius64 said:

This game is simply not an RPG in any way or form.

Click to expand...

The hell it ain't. I haven't had much time to play but I have been spending quite a bit of time thinking about how my two characters should react to Cerebus. You know, figuring out what sort of ROLE that I should PLAY.

Its great that you are enjoying it, but I'm sorry, a choice of two linear options that do not have any material effect on gameplay is not roleplaying.

I'd like to read a review/player report from someone (preferably on this site) that has NOT played ME1. Like myself. I skipped it, and don't intend to play it. But the noted improvements and general high praise of the sequel have me interested. Inotherwords if there's something that is dumbed down vs the first game I probably won't notice.

I like action/RPG (lite) if there's rewarding story and exploration. So any impressions from someone who didn't play ME1? Or a non comparison based review...

This game is a joke, Halo much?

Haha, this game is highly repetitive (you will always know when you are about to enter combat because barrels/boxes where you can find cover will inconspicuously pop up).

This game is halariously generic because of it's repetitiveness.
All of your teammates quests (to get them to be loyal) include the same repetitive combat with Eclipse or some such mercenary group.

As for playing a Soilder it is ludicrous to have a ability called "incendiary ammo".
WTF? Does Shephard magically poo out these fire ammunition and they get magically powerful as you spend ability points in them?

As for the storyline and universe it is obviously targeting young adolescent male teenagers who love playing Halo because it is all action with no depth, 90% of your missions will be combat based and the other 10% well it will probably have combat in it as well.

I had to stop playing it at various times because the missions were just that repetitive.
(I returned to it to give it another chance)

With that said this is certainly a game I will not be playing again. And will probably not finish. I will have to admit though that the prelude was very well done and stunning, the rest of the game fails.

I don't think he likes it.....

OMG ME2 U R NO RPG ENUF!!!!!!111111one

It was ironic that I walked in from brushing my teeth last night and my wife had on one of those Lifetime channels and who was playing a Doctor but the X-Files Cigarette Smoking Man ... can't NOT think of him with the whole Illusive Man thing ...

JDR13 said:

I don't think he likes it…..

Click to expand...

I despise highly repetitive combat and gameplay.

If you have the attention span equivalent of a 9 year old then you are sure to find Mass Effect 2 a hoot!

Like obviously some of the team here have.

As for action rpg shooters I'd much rather play Bloodlines again. At least the dialogue was better written.

So…how many here think that System shock 2 is an rpg?

rune_74 said:

So…how many here think that System shock 2 is an rpg?

Click to expand...

How about No One Lives Forever 2?

Use your skill points…

How about The Sims? Grind to level up your character's skills.

If I should be consistent I probably have to say that RPG's are based on creating and playing your own character. This can either be the opportunity to make roleplaying choices (STALKER, Mass Effect 2) or buying skills for points (Diablo) but a game that offers both feels even more like a RPG.