Economic outlook for 2009

Prime Junta

RPGCodex' Little BRO
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We are now in a depressed economy.

That means that we've gone through the looking glass: virtues are vices, vices are virtues, and we're going to have to run as fast as we can just to stay in the same place.

Left to itself, the world economy will enter a vicious circle. As demand goes down, production will cut supply and cut costs. That means people will get fired, and prices will go down. That means that people and companies will want to save rather than spend, which further depresses demand, which causes further cuts, further deflation, and further layoffs. If the spiral is not broken, it will eventually bottom out, but not before we see something very much like the Great Depression -- unemployment rates of 25% or so, soup kitchens, the works, with possibly a world war or two thrown in.

The good news is that the reflexive policy responses around the world have been, largely, the right ones: coordinated action on monetary policy, some coordination regarding fiscal stimulus, international political crises swept under the rug (Russia and the West are talking again), with no huge pressure for beggar-thy-neighbor protectionist policy responses that would only make this worse for everyone.

But even if everyone does everything by the book, 2009 is going to be very, very ugly.

The reason is that we have problems on three levels: financial, fiscal, and structural.

The financial level requires a monetary response -- throwing money at banks to prevent the financial system from melting down completely. (If it does melt down, the crisis in the real economy will go ballistic.) That level appears to be under control for the moment, and there's a good chance that the Powers that Be will know what to do to keep it that way. But that's not enough.

By the fiscal level, I mean the problems inherent in a depressed economy -- that vicious deflationary cycle I outlined above. We know, in theory, how this level can be addressed too: government has to spend like a drunken sailor, it doesn't really matter on what.

The twist is that in today's globalized economy, fiscal stimulus will very quickly bleed out of any country that does it. It'll only work if everybody does it at once -- and any individual country opting out of it will benefit at the expense of others (since it'll benefit from the stimulus done by everyone else, without having to carry any of the cost). This kind of thing is also politically rather difficult, especially in countries like the US, which are culturally leery of massive government spending programs.

And, of course, this level of fiscal stimulus will run up a bill that will have to be paid, sooner or later. Countries that have behaved responsibly as the economy was growing (Russia, China, much but not all of Western Europe) will be in a much stronger position than countries who didn't (the USA, Eastern Europe, etc.). But for one and all, the cost will be a drag on the economy for decades.

Also, fiscal stimulus takes time to work. According to Paul Krugman, there are only a few tens of billions worth of "shovel-ready" programs in the US. That means that the effects of the kind of fiscal stimulus that's needed (we're talking maybe a half a trillion for the US alone) will only really be felt in 2010 at the earliest. Until that bites, the economy will be in free-fall.

If today's employment numbers indicate what's in store for the future, 2009 in the US will see double-digit unemployment, and it won't be until mid-2010 in the best case that things will start to look up. That means that emergency unemployment benefit programs are required -- both to prevent the unemployed from sliding into poverty during the recession/depression and to keep them consuming: if they're destitute, they'll be further dragging down the economy. Unemployment benefits are very good fiscal stabilizers, since they come into play immediately when the economy turns down.

Finally, the structural level.

The big structural problem in the global economy is USA/China. The USA has been consumption-driven -- and the consumption has been debt-driven. China has been export-driven -- and the exports have been driven by US consumption. This imbalance will have to be corrected: China will have to find a way to increase domestic demand so that it won't have to run a gigantic permanent trade surplus to survive, and the US will have to increase exports and decrease imports enough to bring trade into rough balance.

The underlying structure of this imbalance is the status of the dollar as the world's reserve currency. That will also have to change -- preferably in favor of a more multilateral system. I would hate to have the euro take its place, since it would just recreate the same distortion in a different place.

So, the outlook.

The crisis started in the USA, and USA will continue to be the epicenter. Much depends on how successful the Obama administration is at addressing the crisis. He's certainly chosen just about the best possible team in the world for the job -- if they can't do it, then I doubt anyone can. But even in the best case, 2009 will be a terrible year. My crystal ball shows double-digit unemployment by December 2009, a budget deficit near $1T, and national debt near $12T.

China will see its massive currency reserves melt. It'll be rebuilding after the earthquake (which will be very effective stimulus), and readjusting frantically to cope with a crash of its export sector. If they succeed, they may come out of the crisis with their cash reserves depleted but otherwise in pretty good shape; if they fail, they'll be stuck with a combination of ecological catastrophe, financial ruin, and mass unemployment with everything that entails.

The EU will see itself politically strengthened. Sweden, Denmark, and Iceland will be scrambling to join the eurozone (they're currently spending tremendous amounts of money to defend their currencies; this money would be much better used as stimulus in their economies, and the relatively stable euro is suddenly looking a lot more attractive). The crisis will also leave behind much stronger structures for cooperation -- and a precedent for doing so. Euroskeptics were predicting that the euro -- a currency with a central bank but no central fiscal policy -- is fundamentally untenable; instead, its first major crisis is demonstrating that it's much stronger than the alternative. There's no sudden nostalgia for the good old days of small national currencies; instead, the contrary is true.

However, it's also likely that there will be internal differentiation within the EU: a "core" consisting of countries both within the eurozone and the Schengen system, a "semi-core" consisting of countries that are in Schengen but not the eurozone, a "periphery" consisting of countries that are in neither, and a "hang-around club" of countries that aren't EU members but are closely integrated with it. The UK will remain something of a special case, as it's the only major economy that's outside the EU core.

We'll see a dynamic where countries will want to move towards the core, but entry barriers will become higher. Those countries that are currently out of the core by choice rather than necessity will probably move to join it (Sweden, Denmark); those that are out because they don't make the grade will find it even more difficult to gain entry.

Russia will find itself screwed (again), but with a number of unique strengths: from their POV, if there's electricity from the socket, food in the stores, heating from the radiators, and the Germans aren't invading, it doesn't really count as a crisis, which means that while they'll have to do some pretty wild gyrating to adjust to the crash in energy prices, they're very well equipped psychologically to deal with it.

And finally: the developing economies will, as usual, get the worst of it.
 
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I might nitpick a few details, but overall I give your tea leaves the Friendly Neighborhood Fascist Seal of Approval.

The monkeywrench you didn't mention would have to be terrorism, though. A few well-placed attacks in a wide variety of locations could very easily lead to economic meltdown, significant combat (I don't anticipate any more true world wars, but I'm talking more than "regional flare-ups"), and/or shifting alliances. Mother Nature will probably throw a curveball or two as well, but she'll have to get pretty nasty to elevate things beyond local agony.
 
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Prime J wrote:
The big structural problem in the global economy is USA/China. The USA has been consumption-driven -- and the consumption has been debt-driven. China has been export-driven -- and the exports have been driven by US consumption. This imbalance will have to be corrected: China will have to find a way to increase domestic demand so that it won't have to run a gigantic permanent trade surplus to survive, and the US will have to increase exports and decrease imports enough to bring trade into rough balance.

This is one of my biggest areas of concern--I'm wondering just how shaky China and it's economy may be--after the very difficult winter full of expensive weather related disasters, followed by the Szechuan earthquake and it's political upheaval (as well as actual literal upheaval,) the enormous expense of the Olympics, the impact of their lack of safety regulations in almost all phases of their domestic and export manufacturing, etc.
Seems to me if we're leaning on the yen for survival, we've chosen a thin reed for a crutch.

Agree with your points on Russia, though I'm wondering if the drop in oil prices is going to maybe hit them just a bit harder than you portray. Since arguably that's a good part of the base of the resurgent nationalism we've been seeing lately, couldn't that be a political factor in escalating toward a more aggressive rhetoric?
 
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Agree with your points on Russia, though I'm wondering if the drop in oil prices is going to maybe hit them just a bit harder than you portray. Since arguably that's a good part of the base of the resurgent nationalism we've been seeing lately, couldn't that be a political factor in escalating toward a more aggressive rhetoric?

Oh, it'll hit them very hard indeed. It's just that they're much better equipped psychologically to deal with it -- don't forget that they went through complete political and economic collapse less than twenty years ago: the Russian national economy declined by 50% (and male life expectancy by nearly 10 years) after the fall of the Soviet Union, which makes the Great Depression look like a minor hiccup. They're much stabler, stronger, and more diversified now. So what's going to be a tremendous crisis by any normal standards will be nothing more than a bit of a rough patch by Russian ones. As stated, if there's heat, light, potatoes, and vodka, and the Germans aren't invading, it's not really much of a crisis. And I don't see any of these problems materializing this time around.
 
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And where do second tier countries like Australia fit into all of this?
 
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I don't know enough about the structure of the Australian economy to be able to answer that. How it fares relative to the rest of the world will be largely determined by:

(1) How export-driven is the economy? How price-sensitive are the exports? Economies that are based on export of primary materials (which fluctuate greatly in price) will be worst hit; economies based more on domestic consumption and whose export sectors are based on manufactured goods (which will be affected less) will fare better.

(2) What's the savings rate? If you're going into this with a huge debt burden, you're in trouble. OTOH if your savings rate is within healthy parameters, you'll have much less trouble.

(3) How bubbly has the economy been? If there's been a major speculative bubble (real estate, stocks, something else), the adjustment will be painful; if there hasn't, you'll just get hit by the shock waves from everyone else.

(3) How capable is your government? If it's smart enough to know what to do and confident enough to do it, you'll have much less trouble than if it's either not smart enough or not confident/courageous/stable enough.
 
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In Far Eastern countries like China, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Southeast Asian nations including Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and Philippine - the impact of global economy slow-down becoming more and more apparent everday. When we heard the US subprime mortage problem at the end of last year, not many people thought that it will triggered a global financial crisis. Also, many Southeast Asian countries that experienced Asian Financial Crisis (1997-1998) felt they are now more prepared, with stronger banking and financial systems to withstand the potential global economic slow-down.

In Malaysia we did pretty good at that time, as the GDP growth 5.5% in 1Q07, 5.8% in 2Q07, 6.6% in 3Q07 and 7.3% during last quarter. The growth was driven by strong domestic demand, high commodity prices (palm oil, natural gas, petroleum), expansion of service and finance sectors, good wholesale and retail trade. Even in February 2008, our exports recorded double-digit growth. However, our economists and business community did recognized the risk and impact from the still brewing economic problem in US.

We started 2008 with positive trend with 7.4% GDP growth in 1Q08, 6.7% in 2Q08 but in 3Q08, it was down to 4.7%. However, the first serious economic concern arised in June/July/Aug's 08 was due to continual price increase of crude oil in the international market. While we keep exporting petroleum due to the good market price, the domestic price of gas at gas station started shooting up as government was in the effort of removing gas subsidy to avoid fiscal deficit, and that created a historic inflation up to 8.5% in august. Since then due to falling oil price in the internationl market, the government decided to reduce the gas price periodically based on international market price (or maybe trying to placate a growing angry crowd and keeping away opposition party from continually harping on the issue).

The fourth quarter GDP is estimated to be 3.5% - 4.5%, and for next year the growth is estimated between 5 - 5.5%. The government seem trying to be positive in many economic aspects to avoid "doom and gloom" sentiment which would further weaken the domestic economy, although opposition party would accused them of self-denial and too optimistic.

As for my company's businesses which mostly related to domestic market (retailing, restaurant and poultry), we have very good business so far until recently or as of October 2008. Many peoples expecting 2009 and 2010 going to be bad business years. China already experiencing economy slow-down since months ago, Japan and our nearest neighbour Singapore already in recession. So not only exports to develop countries in Europe and US slowed, but also effecting our exports to China and other more developed Asian countries.

All in all clearly we (as many other Southeast Asian countries) are increasingly feeling the shock from the slowing US economy through external trade and investment linkages. The more worrying thing is that the external downturn has not reached bottom yet, plus, the uncertainty of the stock market. One day the Dow Jones index shooting high up to the roof and then the next day we've bad case diarrhea - everyting out and flushed down into toilet hole.
 
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Not much to add except some small nitpicks regarding Sweden's position. We dont bother defending a fixed rate for the Krona since the debacle of -92 (500% interest rates!), so there is no big cost for that and the falling krona softens the blow a bit for our all important export industry. Denmark with a pegged exchange rate (and raising interest rates) and possibly Iceland with a financial meltdown will join before us, and only once Denmark has made the decision the issue will be on the table here as well.

EDIT: Found one point that will have a slightly bigger impact than whatever my midget country does

The big structural problem in the global economy is USA/China. The USA has been consumption-driven -- and the consumption has been debt-driven. China has been export-driven -- and the exports have been driven by US consumption. This imbalance will have to be corrected: China will have to find a way to increase domestic demand so that it won't have to run a gigantic permanent trade surplus to survive, and the US will have to increase exports and decrease imports enough to bring trade into rough balance.

My impression is that the Chinese crisis package (which is huge, and even on a per capita basis bigger than most western programs) is supposed to do just this. In addition to infrastructure investment there is a conscious effort to kickstart domestic demand and consumption. I get the feeling that this transition was an integral part of the long term economic development plans that simply has been moved forward due to the crisis.
 
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To add to what Zaleukos said, yes we are not spending on defending the Krona, acctually the income becomes greater for many of our companies with a weak Krona compared to the euro and especially $, and swedish work force paid in Krona for companies that earn their money mostly in other currency becomes cheaper.

We are not likely to join the euro anytime soon, the swedish gouverment said they have to accept the public vote against the euro and a new vote is currently not planned, so I think we are talking 2012 at the earliest here, a lot could change until that time.
 
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Iceland is - according to some articles - at the brink of ... well, I'll use the word "civil unrest". The people are very, very, very angry at the government now - and their homes are drowning in debts.

All the warners of the past have been laughed at - now it shows they had been right all of the time.

And the people ask themslves - and the government, of course - : "Why did no-one actually listen to them ?"

Probably because the greed had been taken over ?


As a sidenote, I read today in a newspaper, that John Thain of Merrill Lynch (spelling ?) wants 10 Millions bonus payment for having saved the company from going bancrupt.

Now THAT is greed completely taking over a person ...
 
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Finally, the structural level.

The big structural problem in the global economy is USA/China. The USA has been consumption-driven -- and the consumption has been debt-driven. China has been export-driven -- and the exports have been driven by US consumption. This imbalance will have to be corrected: China will have to find a way to increase domestic demand so that it won't have to run a gigantic permanent trade surplus to survive, and the US will have to increase exports and decrease imports enough to bring trade into rough balance.


This won't happen until the fixed US dollar - Chinese yuan exchange rate is loosened by Chinese government. But trouble is that a lot of American corporations manufacture in China and they benefit from this fixed rate so the question is if there's actually will to abandon this fixed rate politics.

The related question is why in the first place these US companies moved to China...

because of cheap labour force and because of the absence of all possible social benefits to which an average American worker is used. Yes, I'm talking about labour unions (which are traditionally associated with the Democratic Party if I'm not wrong.. :) )
 
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Iceland is - according to some articles - at the brink of ... well, I'll use the word "civil unrest". The people are very, very, very angry at the government now - and their homes are drowning in debts.

All the warners of the past have been laughed at - now it shows they had been right all of the time.

And the people ask themslves - and the government, of course - : "Why did no-one actually listen to them ?"

Probably because the greed had been taken over ?

I wouldnt use the term civil unrest, but frustration with the government is certainly brewing. Iceland had a financial sector that was too big for the country and simply lacked enough qualified people to staff it or to monitor it.

As a sidenote, I read today in a newspaper, that John Thain of Merrill Lynch (spelling ?) wants 10 Millions bonus payment for having saved the company from going bancrupt.

Now THAT is greed completely taking over a person ...

If (big if though) he is responsible for saving the company then I dont have a problem with a large bonus...
 
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And where do second tier countries like Australia fit into all of this?

We're in a good position fiscially, the Reserve Bank has plenty of room to move on interest rates (they can cut another 4.5% if they need to) and the currency has dropped ~30% from its highs which will keep the exports moving. The banks are in great shape too: Keating's reforms at he begining of the 90s have left us with some of the best regulated instituations in the world. So in theory we should be fine - the two big risks are a crisis in cofidence where everyone stays home and the economy crashes for lack of acticity (and the last consumer confidence poll is heading back up which is good news) or a prolonged slump in China and Japan which would kill the resources sector (and the news there is not so good with China slowing and Japan looking like its heading into its worst recession in decades).
 
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The good news is that the reflexive policy responses around the world have been, largely, the right ones: coordinated action on monetary policy, some coordination regarding fiscal stimulus, international political crises swept under the rug (Russia and the West are talking again), with no huge pressure for beggar-thy-neighbor protectionist policy responses that would only make this worse for everyone.

It is really not so certain if adopted policies were right ones.

When financial institutions bancrupt it is basicly not right to save them by state (by giving them more money from public budgets which is basicly money of tax-payers or "money-lenders" which tax payers must pay in the end anyway). It is not right because by doing so you are saying to those financial managers that regardless how poorly they are doing, it doesn't actually matter because tax-payer will pay it at worst. Such approach blurs the responsibility and accountability of interested entities, i.e. both banks, as well as those who use their services. Although it could look like a much needed "stimulus", such approach would (will) only deepen current financial and ecomical crisis. In the long term certainly.

I agree that when the economy is depressed, a theory (some theory) says: pump more money into it. But present situation is somewhat different. I think that there is already a lot of money in economics (but the problem is that it stopped flowing now). In fact, a lot of money in economics (due to long-held low interest rates in USA by FED because of fears from economical depression in America after 9/11) was primarily the cause of mortgage and thus financial and economical crisis in USA. Along with "instant gratification" debt life style of average American. Buy now, pay later (maybe). And because we have global economical and financial model the crisis hit another parts of world too.

I agree that some "entities" are probably really "too big to fail" like AIG but this shoud be the absolute exemptions and I'm convinced that one cannot continue to solve (adress) these problems by printing new money to infinity..

And finally: the developing economies will, as usual, get the worst of it.

Especially tax-payers will get the worst of it, as usual. Tax-payers will pay all the "financial bailouts" eventually..
 
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Especially tax-payers will get the worst of it, as usual. Tax-payers will pay all the "financial bailouts" eventually..

Not the worst. People will die of starvation, violence, and disease because of this economic crisis, but it'll be in little shithole countries that don't have any taxes.

And yes, of course the taxpayers will eventually foot the bill. It's just that the alternative is even worse.
 
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Not the worst. People will die of starvation, violence, and disease because of this economic crisis, but it'll be in little shithole countries that don't have any taxes.

And yes, of course the taxpayers will eventually foot the bill. It's just that the alternative is even worse.

Ok, you are right.

The Third world is often forgotten when we are discussing this today's crisis. The crisis will most likely have the harshest impact in these countries, this is true.

--
A good and true article dealing with this issue can be found here:

http://www.dailycardinal.com/article/21446

P.S. In my post above I meant "too big to fall" and not "too big to fail" of course.. but I don't want to edit it any further. But when I'm thinking about it now, as a consequence, it is actually the same...
 
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China is doing a 4000 billion RMB program to lessen the effect of the crisis in china, they will be used to lower VAT, and various taxes, build cheaper estates for the citizen, and lower interests.
 
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