Dark Souls - Confirmed for PC

vurt said:

Mouse/keyboard really doesnt make too much sense in third person games, gamepads are based around those type of games and it's very noticeable. For example the seamlessnes between walking/sneaking slowly to running at full speed, very convenient and something a mouse or keyboard never could do. Most of the combat moves would suck too using keyb/mouse i think, they would feel very off..

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Like Gothic?

Cool. It would be nice if Rockstar brought Red Dead Redemption to PC too. I think there is a lot that modders could add to that game.

Pretty sure RDR isn't coming to the pc, I've been considering buying a console just for that.

The xbox360 controller already beats kb+mouse for the assassin's creed games, batman arkhams and witcher 2.

vurt said:

Mouse/keyboard really doesnt make too much sense in third person games, gamepads are based around those type of games and it's very noticeable. For example the seamlessnes between walking/sneaking slowly to running at full speed, very convenient and something a mouse or keyboard never could do.

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Your missing the point. It's not about which is better. It's about being able to choose. Also there's no reason to bring it to pc if you want to play it as you do on console.

Gradually progressing from a walk to run is a nice feature. Really though how often would you turn from a monster and slowly accelerate to a full run. You wouldn't, you'd just turn and run. How would being able to sneak at several different speeds be so much more beneficial than sneaking at a walk. I admit I don't play with the controller much. I do in sports games and the gradually acceleration is no help. Also i've watched many hours of my sons and family playing console games including demon souls. The majority of the time is spent walking or running both of which a M&K can do.

vurt said:

Most of the combat moves would suck too using keyb/mouse i think, they would feel very off..

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I would say the same thing about playing it with a controller. That's why adequate control support for both would be nice.

sakichop said:

This worries me as the main reason I don't play games on consoles is I really dislike controllers and have a hell of a time any time I have to control the camera or try to aim with them.

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Although I love my consoles (though PC is and always has been my FIRST love), I also have a terrible time using console controllers in 3d games. I just cannot get the hang of how to control the camera. I either move the camera too slow, or it moves wildly too fast. After all these years, I've never gotten better at it.

I feel sad for the poor kids who defend gamepads. I don't even understand it. They must really like obtuse camera controls.

I'm as "pro-PC" as you can get, but I don't see playing Dark Souls with keyboard and mouse. It's not Gothic, and I just don't see that combat scheme translating well to typical PC controls.

I'm sure they'll include the option to use k&m, but don't expect it to handle as well as a good gamepad.

sakichop said:

The main difference between console and pc gaming is controls.

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Wow, that's a pretty…extreme statement. I surely hope most PC gamers view things like mod support, flexible online functionality, a wider range of digital distribution options, a wealth of graphical settings etc. etc. as the truly meaningful and substantial differences between PC and console gaming. Unless we're talking about first-person shooters specifically I'd really not want the PC/console argument to boil down to a shallow control input question; in that case we PC nerds have long since lost the real fight over legitimacy…

Beyond that, I think the "well-established standard" part of my argument is not a meaningful thing to debate. I play a lot of games in many genres (i.e. not just RPGs) and I know of very few major (non-strategy/simulation) games on PC without official controller support released in the past 2-3 years. It's all a function of multiplatform development, of course, since so many games are designed from the ground up for consoles.

None of this is intended to suggest that I don't want Dark Souls to have the best M&K support possible. I think there are inherent limits to what "best" can mean in this case, but it would obviously be absurd if DS couldn't be played with M&K at all. In all likelihood, keyboard fanatics will (sadly) stick to their preferred control method and never know the difference between M&K and the intended gamepad controls. Hopefully the port will be good enough (especially in terms of things like the UI) that their illusion is never broken…

Demiath said:

Wow, that's a pretty…extreme statement. I surely hope most PC gamers view things like mod support, flexible online functionality, a wider range of digital distribution options, a wealth of graphical settings etc. etc. as the truly meaningful and substantial differences between PC and console gaming. Unless we're talking about first-person shooters specifically I'd really not want the PC/console argument to boil down to a shallow control input question; in that case we PC nerds have long since lost the real fight over legitimacy…

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I'm specifically talking about Dark souls. Not the state of pc and console gaming as a whole. I've gone into that so many times before and have no interest to do that here.

To me and many others I would suspect control input is rather important and not shallow at all.

Demiath said:

Beyond that, I think the "well-established standard" part of my argument is simply so far beyond dispute that any discussion on this matter simply becomes ridiculous. I play many games in a lot of genres and I know of very few major (non-strategy/simulation) games on PC without official controller released in the past 2-3 years. It's all a multiplatform thing, of course, since so many games are developed for consoles and then ported to PC.

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Yes, you can use controllers on pc and have been able to for years but it should not be to the detriment or exclusion of quality K&M support. That's my point, let's not turn it into something more.

i'm all for proper PC ports, but some people are being a bit reactionary, imo. If console manufacturers wanna port games while preserving the original control scheme - as long as they make that explicitly obvious - whom does that hurt? If they're just too lazy to support keys and mouse then that's sad. When a publisher who knows better lets, for example, an rpg out on PC with crappy mouse support then that's a little negligent. But what holy book really maintains that Capcom shouldn't bring out for example, a Street Fighter game designed for PC w gamepad or fighting stick? If you wanna avoid all gamepad games, that's fine, but I think the implication that all genres must worship the keyboard is crazy. I'm hoping DS has a good keys and mouse config too, but I won't cry if it doesn't. I will, however, bitch out the reviewers who don't fess up if it has poor controls.

I have to agree. It's a game that heavily relies on analogue movement and suits a controller. Perhaps they will find a solution - but I don't see anything wrong with saying "hey, this gameplay really benefits from a controller".

Dhruin said:

I have to agree. It's a game that heavily relies on analogue movement and suits a controller. Perhaps they will find a solution - but I don't see anything wrong with saying "hey, this gameplay really benefits from a controller".

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I don't either but they should also support M&K to the best of their ability. After all M&K is still the #1 input method on the pc and i'm betting i'm not the only one of the 92,000 people that signed the petition to bring it to pc that is expecting good M&K support.

I heard the same thing about batman. It's way better with controller, The controller is much better suited for this type of gameplay, The games much easier with a controller, etc., etc.

So finally I tried it with a controller and died repeatedly. I never had the camera in the right place, often messed up the combo's and just overall had a very awkward experience. I then switched back to M&K and beat the game without any control issues. I've played almost exclusively with a mouse and keyboard for 15 years and suck with a controller. I can see if your proficient with a controller how poor M&K support would not bother you but I am not.

I expect games to support the controls for the platform which they are released. I can get a M&K for my ps3 but i'd still expect quality controller support, There are tablets and phones that support controllers but you still expect good touch screen controls, So even though pc supports controllers, I still expect good M&K support.

Being pro M&K is not a negative towards controllers, I just prefer M&K if you don't then you'll have nothing to worry about with this game i'm sure.

No, I'm terrible with a controller - but I have finished 2 or 3? games using one, so I guess I might have a little more experience than you.

I agree with everything you said in that last post. I primarily posted because I sensed some PC fans are incensed that a controller might be "better" but I really think it might be with this game. Still, they should implement M+K to their best ability as well.

Dhruin said:

I have to agree. It's a game that heavily relies on analogue movement and suits a controller. Perhaps they will find a solution - but I don't see anything wrong with saying "hey, this gameplay really benefits from a controller".

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It is not just that it benefits from the controller. It was designed from scratch FOR a controller. When the developers were making the game, they never anticipated it would be controlled with anything other than controller. So even if they manage to adapt it somehow to mouse and keyboard, controller will always be the correct choice for this game, since that is the device the game was made for.

Splinter Cell was a game that relied on analog movement, but when it was ported to the PC, it was perfect. Using the mouse wheel for controlling the speed of movement was even more efficient than using an analog gamepad. Combine that with the analog precision of a mouse (something even motion controls can't beat) and the result is a control scheme far better than anything possible on a console.

The developers can do almost anything if they put their effort into it. The problem is, most of them simply opt not to. You can't blame faults of rushed ports on KBD&mouse and then, come to the universal conclusion that KBD/mouse just doesn't cut it for third person games.

If you have played dark souls, you would understand it would be very hard to translate it to a mouse and keyboard game....it would be more akward I would think.

sakichop said:

I heard the same thing about batman.

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That game is pretty much the exact opposite of this game. I mean you can play Batman blindfolded and win many of the fights. In DS you would die within 1 second. I can see how many people don't understand that mouse/keyb would suck for this game, you probably havent played a game that is similar to DS.

rune_74 said:

If you have played dark souls, you would understand it would be very hard to translate it to a mouse and keyboard game….it would be more akward I would think.

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I have played demon souls for about 1/2 an hour but got frustrated with the controller and quit.

It's really not a big deal if it doesn't have adequate M&K support I just won't play. Not the end of the world for me.

I have played blades of darkness with M&K with no problems. Is that not like dark souls either.

I guess I don't understand what can't be done with M&K. You can sneak, lock on, strafe, dodge, block and swing a weapon. What specifically can't the M&K do.

And apparently in splinter cell you can slowly accelerate also. So what can't a M&K setup do that it needs to?

Just too many buttons for various things that need to be pressed relatively quickly.......I guess you could do it with a key board, but it would be hard.

sakichop said:

I have played blades of darkness with M&K with no problems.

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BoD was a PC exclusive and designed as such. I don't think it will be as easy to translate the Dark Souls control scheme to m&k.