Age of Decadence - September Update

Wisdom said:

Welcome to Generation Gimmie Gimmie Now Now.

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You are so right, grandpa!

What i didnt like in AoD demo is that u get instantly teleported in quests from one location to another, and thats very annoying for me, because i really love exploration and getting to know places.
Mybe that was just because it was a short demo but still its annoying.

joxer said:

If you want my cash before the game is finished, next time please do the funding on Kickstarter.

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And how does this make any sense again? Most of KS projects sell you nothing but dreams. Very few projects offer a playable demo. We offered two demos and are about to release 60% of the game.

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else to pre-order it, but 'next time do it on KS' is a silly argument considering the nature of the platform.

… but this is an unfinished product here and I don't trust that "early access" system since it's obviously made to be a competition vs KS and Indiegogo.

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Again, KS - dreams and promises. Early Access - playable content that can be verified by others. Maybe Steam will eventually offer their own version of KS as it's too tempting a business, but Early Access has nothing to do with it.

Fanest said:

What i didnt like in AoD demo is that u get instantly teleported in quests from one location to another, and thats very annoying for me, because i really love exploration and getting to know places.

Mybe that was just because it was a short demo but still its annoying.

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It's been toned down in the last version (3.2).

That makes no sense to you since you're into demo stuff. There are ppl like me who simply don't want or don't care for demos, alphas or betas. To us it's enough that you describe a game and we fund it if we want a game like that.

The recent example is this:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1061220683&postcount=7
That's not a dream nor a promise, that's something I like and thus I'll support that game with my wallet without playing a demo, alpha or beta release.

joxer said:

There are ppl like me who simply don't want or don't care for demos, alphas or betas.

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Trust me when I say that you would be in the minority.

joxer said:

That makes no sense to you since you're into demo stuff.

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I'm "into demo stuff" because demos are real and promises are nothing but good intentions.

There are ppl like me who simply don't want or don't care for demos, alphas or betas. To us it's enough that you describe a game and we fund it if we want a game like that.

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It is a strange position, but to each their own, I suppose.

JDR13 said:

Trust me when I say that you would be in the minority.

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I trust you because when it comes to games, I'm in every possible minority.

VDweller said:

It is a strange position, but to each their own, I suppose.

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Exactly. But I thought your job is the game design not marketing and psychology.

Every business has to market. If you're not using a publisher, the game designers have to do it. No sales = no money = no more updates, let alone more games. And psychology and data mining are so engrained in marketing now it's not even funny.

Did you know companies scan public records for birth certificates because after having a kid is one the the few times people are willing to totally overhaul their shopping habits? Ads through the mail go through the roof after a child berth, at least in the US. Target overhauled that strategy trying to find out who was going to have a baby 3 months before they were born in order to flip them into Target shoppers before anyone else got a crack at them. Stuff like that is the norm in marketing.

I will occasionally play a demo or alpha or beta, but very rarely. And I certainly won't pay for it. Based on comments here, that doesn't sound like a minority position.

I think all games should have free demo so I can see for myself whether game is for me or not, especially for unusual games like AoD.

Somebody have said earlier and I agree: we should have separate thread for alpha/beta testing (free or otherwise) because we are REALLY getting OOT.

joxer said:

And that's why I'll buy the game. When it's finished. I just won't buy beta or demo or whatever is currently on the menu. Sorry.

If you want my cash before the game is finished, next time please do the funding on Kickstarter. I'm not saying Steam won't remove the problematic product from the catalogue and do refunds (dunno if anyone remembers them removing EA's Darkspore due to problems with EA servers players had), but this is an unfinished product here and I don't trust that "early access" system since it's obviously made to be a competition vs KS and Indiegogo.

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Wait, you realize that AoD isn't even on Steam Early Access at the moment, and is currently selling pre-orders via its website right? VD isn't selling a beta/demo (though they are available), he's selling the game, before it's out. Exact same as Kickstarter, and just like KS, you can also pay more than the minimum.

Beyond some people's OCD obsession with what does (and doesn't) appear in their "Steam catalog", the main downside to Steam Early Access IMO is that you can't pay more than the asking price. For AoD and various Kickstarters, I was able to do that, to help support development and pay what I think the game is worth to me. On the other hand, for Underrail, I was not.

zahratustra said:

Somebody have said earlier and I agree: we should have separate thread for alpha/beta testing (free or otherwise) because we are REALLY getting OOT.

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Unfortunately, these days, if all we got was news about single-player PC RPGs that had come out recently, or were coming out soon, I think the front page would be nearly empty.

Thrasher said:

I will occasionally play a demo or alpha or beta, but very rarely. And I certainly won't pay for it. Based on comments here, that doesn't sound like a minority position.

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Like the comment right after yours.

We aren't talking about paying for anything, I'm talking about a demo, beta, etc. vs just a description, and yeah, I think it's safe to say the majority would prefer the former.

VDweller said:

And how does this make any sense again? Most of KS projects sell you nothing but dreams. Very few projects offer a playable demo. We offered two demos and are about to release 60% of the game.

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else to pre-order it, but 'next time do it on KS' is a silly argument considering the nature of the platform.


Again, KS - dreams and promises. Early Access - playable content that can be verified by others. Maybe Steam will eventually offer their own version of KS as it's too tempting a business, but Early Access has nothing to do with it.

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this is the logic that's missing me too. At least you get something for your money, even if its incomplete. Whatever it takes to get funding is just good marketing. I mean, if people wanted to support it KS like, they could buy an early release and not actually play it.
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As for too much test, in my case the Roman like intrigue was great. What turned me off on games like PS:T was the same thing that turned me off of Oblivion: you got bogged down in too many sidequests. AoD didn't seem to have that, as I don't remember the character I used getting constantly distracted by something meaningless.
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so VD, any word on the free camera?

Well we certainly were talking about how shitty it is to pay for a demo, beta, or alpha. That was the whole point of this discussion, until it was derailed by Joxer not liking even freebies.

I’ll join the group of people who do not like the whole early access trend. But I completely understand why it is done. It’s basically like another sale, where the game goes into the spotlight. Basically the game has two releases and probably two spikes of high sale numbers with the full price.
But it also has advantages to people who do not want to play early access games. By doing early access you already have feedback floating around. The chance of a release like Colonial Marines, which is full of unexpected bugs and false promises is basically eliminated.
I currently own a lot of games which are in beta like Xenonauts, M&M X, Legends of Eisenwald, Project Zomboid, but I totally agree to DArtagnan when saying “Again, it comes down to how much repetition you can be exposed to before saturation kicks in, I guess.”
To me saturation kicks in extremely fast. I only play a game once. I always play it on hardest difficulty and do it as complete as possible (contentwise not hunting achievements). For me that is the experience I am looking for. I don’t “replay” many games. But I also do not watch movies twice as I hate predictability.

I also do not enjoy playing demos. I only check these for quality. When I see that the quality of the game is fine, I will buy it. There is absolutely zero atmosphere or satisfaction for me when I am playing a demo. That said, my respect to developers releasing a Demo. For me that's a sign of honesty like "We don't want you to waste your money". I played the tutorial from the EU4 Demo and I didn't like it. But my respect to the company!

And @Topic:
Waiting till release for buying it.

Kordanor said:

I also do not enjoy playing demos. I only check these for quality. When I see that the quality of the game is fine, I will buy it. There is absolutely zero atmosphere or satisfaction for me when I am playing a demo. That said, my respect to developers releasing a Demo. For me that's a sign of honesty like "We don't want you to waste your money". I played the tutorial from the EU4 Demo and I didn't like it. But my respect to the company!

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Well said, and I think that's the whole point that some people here are missing. The purpose of a demo is to see if that game meets your personal standards, and there's no better way to determine that than experiencing a piece of the actual game.

The problem is that companies are trying to change the purpose into creating a new revenue stream. That's the key point you seem to be missing.

Steam Early Access, or other similar setups (such as what VD's doing with AoD), should basically be considered a pre-order, where they give you alpha/beta access to the game as a side benefit. It's not a replacement for a free demo, nor is it a new revenue stream. It's just a replacement for pre-orders.