The magerette/skavenhorde Warhammer thread

First Chamr I want to say thanks for that link I didn't know about that one. It looks a lot better than the one I play now.

Now onto Mark of Chaos, I played Total War after I played Mark of Chaos because it looked similar to MOC. However IMO they are nothing alike. Let's put it this way, I played MOC to the end and I played TW for only two battles after which I quit TW, uninstalled it, erased every trace of it from my PC, put the CD back into its box and then put the box in my "won't throw away, but won't play it ever again" pile of games. I can't really explain the difference other than I found that TW to be exactly how you think MOC might be. Build armies and just throw them at each other.

If you liked Kohan 2 or Kohan 1 you will like MOC. They are similar in some ways. With regiments and moral, but MOC is much more linear than Kohan and there is no city building or planning at all. You just follow a trail that leads to the next area. There are optional battles to be had (mostly for extra gold, experience and items) but it is just one long trail to follow to the next battlefield.

The battlefields aren't your typical Tabletop Warhammer Game although some of them are, like the ones where you attack a fortress or are attacked in a fortress. The one main difference between MOK and Dawn of War is that MOK is more like the tabletop game in that you choose which regiments you want before you start the battle. There is no way to produce more of a regiment once you click the ok button and start the battle. I liked this alot since it was closer to the tabletop game than Dawn of war. There are no resources to gather or buildings to build. Before the battle starts you position your regiments in your deployment area. Just like in the tabletop game. Once you click the done button your off and running. However, sometimes the maps are really big, like the one in the caves where you are fighting dwarves and its not just one big brawl. You can employ tactics similar to the tabletop game. Send in your cannon fodder units and when they are engaged with the enemy, you send in your knights or with my Skaven units I have my gutter runners dig under the battling units and surprise the enemy from behind, great moral hit on the enemies. For really tough regiments, I'll position my warpfire throwers to the side and try to nail them before my Stormvermin come running in and then throw my rat ogres at their flanks. Nothing makes them flee faster than a monster rat ;) Anyways as you can tell there are numerous strategies you can employ to devastate your enemies and I haven't even told you about the Chaos regiments yet or the various spells and abilities your heroes can employ to turn the tide of the battle. You have to change your strategy depending on the map. Some of them are quite large and you almost never meet all of the opposing army at once.

I've basically been telling you about the Skaven campaign but it isn't just Skaven. If you choose Chaos you start out as a chaos hero with no regiments. In the first map you will meet various regiments and recruit them to your cause and in typical chaos fashion, you will beat the opposing chaos opponents to proceed to the next map. At first you are just a normal chaos hero but later on you have to choose between Nurgle and Khorne. It’s sorta funny because I never ever would choose those guys. I would have gone for Tzeentch or Slaanesh but hey beggars can't be choosers as they say. Anyways, I chose Nurgle because he was the only "magic" using option. Khorne has hard-hitting units but not much in the way of magic (no spell casters that I know of). Once you made your choice you now have the option to buy your gods special units, like plague bearers or Nurgle sorcerers. I really didn't like how my hero got all fat and bloated though:(. In between all of this your chaos armies are tag teamed with Skaven armies. You never have both races on the same battlefield. You have so many battles you need to do with Chaos and then the plot will call for your Skaven to do some battles. It was nicely done I think. Though you may get frustrated if you want to always use your chaos units instead of Skaven or vice versa. It does make you change your strategy somewhat depending on what race you are using at the time.

After battles you get so much gold which can be used to buy new regiments or heroes, reinforce your more experienced regiments, buy better weapons or armor, buy magical equipment for your heroes or give blessings to your units for the next battle. Your units gain experience the more the battle, so having an experienced regiment totally wiped out is more devastating to you than having a newly bought regiment slaughtered. Always send in the green recruits as cannon fodder and if they survive then you they will become more valuable to you. Also it keeps your more experienced units from getting wiped out. That doesn't always work especially with Skaven. One time the pack masters for the rat ogres were wiped out and then I had those guys go berserk on my units. Needless to say I lost that battle. There is nothing scarier than a cranky rat ogre with no one to control it.

Before I get into duels you should know that the "rpg" aspect of the game is with your heroes. There are three categories you can upgrade your hero in. One category has different abilities that will boost his effectiveness as a fighter or mage. The second has abilities that you can use in duels. The last one helps him as a general and will give various skills you can unlock to help your units or devastate your opponents. The skills are unlocked in steps. First get (insert skill name) to 5 then you can unlock (insert skill name). I concentrated on helping my units and fighting, with a couple of duel skills. The duels are ok. You get close to an opposing hero or mage character and a circle will appear (think Black and white 1 when the creatures fought). The battle still goes on around them but none of the units can help out your guy or vice versa. You use any skills you bought in this battle and it is decided when either your opponent dies or runs away or you do. If you run (I had to a couple of times) your units take a huge moral hit and if your dealing with Skaven that is devastating to your army. I liked the duels and the different skills were interesting but I mostly used them to try to take out the heroes before they could do real damage to my units.

Well this is quite a post :) I didn't think I was going to type this much but there are so many aspects of the game that are great that I just can't seem to shut up:D I haven't played online and my only experience is from the Chaos campaign. If Chaos isn't your thing though they have the Empire campaign. I thought the empires tag team partner was going to be the Dwarves because I faced them a few times and they make a good nemesis for the Skaven army but I checked online and it's the Elves. I faced them a few times too mostly with my chaos forces though, Knowing GW though I'm not surprised they threw in Elves to be the tag team partner.

There is a lot of criticism with this game. Especially from hardcore GW fans who aren’t happy with the Realtime aspect of the game or how they changed some of the rules, but to me it still kept the essence of the tabletop game. Moral, spells, regiments, deployment areas and the various heroes are still all there. They are just changed a bit for the PC game and best of all they put in my Skaven, the most under appreciated race in the Warhammer world, imo ;) Anyways let me know if there is anything else you want to know because talking about this has made me want to play it again lol. Still going to choose Chaos.

Once again thanks for those links, I didn't know about VASSAL or the other heroquest game and sorry about the extremely long post a :D

On a side not have you heard of any Mordiehm computer games out there? That is a pretty good game.
 
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Awesome post, skaven! Thanks a ton! :biggrin: Sounds like a winner. If you haven't heard, there's supposed to be an expansion coming out in March called Battle March that adds the greenies as their own race and dark elves. I'll probably wait until after that's released to get a gold edition with both in it.

On a side not have you heard of any Mordiehm computer games out there? That is a pretty good game.

No, but I haven't done a lot of research on it. The concept behind the TT seems very cool though. If there hasn't been a comp game made, I think this would be an excellent twist on the cRPG genre. Gangs roaming around a burnt out city vying for power, control and loot in a grim, WH fantasy universe. Lots of new and cool things you could do with that...
 
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Awesome post, skaven! Thanks a ton! :biggrin: Sounds like a winner. If you haven't heard, there's supposed to be an expansion coming out in March called Battle March that adds the greenies as their own race and dark elves. I'll probably wait until after that's released to get a gold edition with both in it..

I've been waiting for this one for awhile now. They threw in the vampires too but not as a race to be played. Oh well, I've always wanted to try dark elves but never wanted to start collecting another race (not enough money to do that).

No, but I haven't done a lot of research on it. The concept behind the TT seems very cool though. If there hasn't been a comp game made, I think this would be an excellent twist on the cRPG genre. Gangs roaming around a burnt out city vying for power, control and loot in a grim, WH fantasy universe. Lots of new and cool things you could do with that...

I thought so too. I've never really played the tabletop game but I bought the game and it looks like alot of fun.
 
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Played through the tutorial for Dawn of War--very nice little RTS. Reminded me a bit of Starcraft. Next will try Mark of Chaos--for whichIi found a demo and a place to buy the game...I'll post the link for you strategy fans. It's one that Cormac turned me on to back when I was looking for Dominions 3(another really great game). Anyway, I always check there when I can't find a game and they're reliable, cheap and fast:
NWS Online COMBAT GAMING STORE
(Note they do ship internationally.)
 
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Does ebay use paypal?
 
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yes, though sometimes buyers allow other methods. paypal is rocksolid secure though and if a seller screws you over they are good about giving you a refund.
 
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Here are some more linkys for Mark and Dawn of War Platinum. Great, great games both of them.

I think amazon uses paypal but not sure about ebay (I've never bought anything from ebay yet:))
Mark of Chaos
http://www.amazon.com/Namco-40014-W..._1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1199938620&sr=8-1

Dawn of war Platinum
http://www.amazon.com/Warhammer-Daw..._3?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1199938620&sr=8-3


Dominion3 is a great game. I would rank it up there with Warhammer games but it has a bit more depth to it than even the tabletop version. I still don't think I've explored all the different kinds of gods or spells my little guys can use.

Thanks for that link. Another shop that I didn't know about and the prices seem reasonable.
 
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@magerette: Thanks for the link to that other site. Always good to have multiple sources.

A quick note on DoW: if you decide to pull the trigger, you may as well get the Platinum edition and not just the Gold edition. The general consensus among the community is that the game is at its best with the last expansion and the changes it makes to the rules and overall balance. Plus, you get the strategic map campaign with it and two additional races to choose from.
 
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A couple of updates to that little review. I started playing it again and I forgot to mention a few things that bugged me about Chaos. One is you better have explored everywhere you want to explore on the battlemap before you finish your last objective. It doesn't give you the option to stay on the map to look around for things you might of missed. You have to leave the map once you win.

I was thinking about Magerette while playing ;) Seriously though I was thinking that anyone who was new to the warhammer universe might not know what units do what and about moral. It doesn't explain moral too well in the tutorial and goes over it a little bit in the book, but basically if you attack your enemies regiment from the front there is no moral hit. If you flank them and charge from the sides the enemies will take a slight moral hit. If you attack from their back they take a huge hit. Moral lessens their effectiveness in battle and best of all when it reaches zero the remainding units will flee, leaving you to just charge after them and run them down.

The units are not explained well in game so you'll have to check the manual for each ones special abilities. Like knights are fast hard hitting units that get a bonus when they charge a regiment (didn't say this in game) and there are various other units and monsters that once again are not explained very well but if anyone has any questions I pretty much know all the units strengths and weaknesses.

Another thing I forgot to mention. As your regiments increase in experience they get larger. Much larger. Like from having 40 axe throwers to 60 or even 80. I can't remember the exact number, but when I bought a couple of basic green units they were much smaller than my more experienced units.

No pause is a pisser. There are times in the battle where a pause button would of been very helpful but even without it you can zip around the map pretty quickly(how hard would it of been to incorporate that feature:()

Also the skills for the heroes have a level limit. I had forgotten about that. So not only does it take 5 (instert skill here) to get (insert skill here) you'll also have to be at a higher level to get some of them. It isn't a big deal just thought I would mention that.

You have to be careful with the duels. I was too busy trying to squash the enemy that I wasn't paying attention to the duel going on and my guy got spanked by the opposing hero. I figured it would be an easy fight but if your not paying attention to it, you could easily lose it.

One last thing. The load times between the battles are a bit long. Not super long but I'd say at least 1 min or 1 min and a half.

I'm having a blast replaying this game. I'm glad you asked me to tell you about it or I would probably still be playing UFO Extraterrestrail (Not as good as I thought that one was going to be) Anyways this game is a lot of fun but you have to make your plan ahead of time and stick with it. Espcially when the battles start getting heated. After each battle you given enough time to regroup your units and to form up another strategy for the next stage of the map.

Well, I'm off. I'm almost to the part where I meet my beloved little skaven. Those sneaky guys are just too cute lol.
 
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i don't know chamr, the platinum edition is usually about twice as much or more, plus it would take a while to play all three, and then theres the fact that another expansion is coming and another platinum plus edition to follow.
 
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I read the name "Talisman" ... It has been re-released recently ... I saw it in a shop here.
 
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Thanks for the additional info, skaven. Much appreciated.

No pause is a pisser. There are times in the battle where a pause button would of been very helpful but even without it you can zip around the map pretty quickly(how hard would it of been to incorporate that feature:()

That's odd. I can pause mid-battle in the multi-player demo I messing around with. Weird. That would be annoying, especially as you're learning the game.

I'm getting my butt handed to my be the easy skirmish AI so far. I have a suspicion that it has a lot to do with my choices in setting up my army before the battle. That's a dimension that seems to be the biggest learning curve for folks like me that are unfamiliar with the ins and outs of the TT. There are a LOT of different unit types to choose as well as gameplan against from your opponent. Cool! :biggrin:
 
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purrsonally, I very highly doubt that DOW is Mags type of game, i dont think she'd like it much past the tutorial. I'm so sure of it, that I'll change my avatar to a sickenly cute, girly kitten avatar for a week if she does
 
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i don't know chamr, the platinum edition is usually about twice as much or more, plus it would take a while to play all three, and then theres the fact that another expansion is coming and another platinum plus edition to follow.

True, but if you're like me and are tired of the typical RTS linear campaigns with a thin story tacked on and want to skip straight to the board game strategy campaign, you need the Dark Crusade expansion. More importantly, though, from everything I've read, most that have played through the series as they were released agree that the second expansion, Winter Assault, kind of broke the balance of the game and was prone to too much single unit spamming. Most also agree that Dark Crusade v1.2 achieved the best balance and variety of viable builds and unit mixes. I can't speak from experience, though, as I joined the party with the Platinum edition and have played very little of the first two iterations.
 
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purrsonally, I very highly doubt that DOW is Mags type of game, i dont think she'd like it much past the tutorial. I'm so sure of it, that I'll change my avatar to a sickenly cute, girly kitten avatar for a week if she does

You're probably right. But for the sake of seeing your avatar change, I hope you're wrong! ;)
 
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if dawn of war is anything like company of heroes, which i've heard it is then the pause key is a bit allusive and atypical being that it is actually the pause/break key rather than a function key or escape. made it over halfway through the original company of heroes campaign before i figured that key part out.

i'm a bit different chamr; i play almost only the single player campaign, and nothing else, though i will agree many rts have rather weak ones. company of heroes(both) campaigns though are awesome and i hope that relic's talent was as good for the dawn of war series because for me homeworld 2 was a big letdown and part of the reason why (in addition to the setting) that dawn of war never appealed to me until now with both fantastic company of heroes "under my belt" and all of you guys's high marks for dawn of war.
 
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if dawn of war is anything like company of heroes, which i've heard it is then the pause key is a bit allusive and atypical being that it is actually the pause/break key rather than a function key or escape. made it over halfway through the original company of heroes campaign before i figured that key part out.

I think skaven's talking about pausing in Mark of Chaos. We've got two game discussions going on in parallel in this thread. Weeee!

dawn of war never appealed to me until now with both fantastic company of heroes "under my belt" and all of you guys's high marks for dawn of war.

My quick take on CoH vs. DoW having played the demo fo CoH and quite a bit of DoW: yes, CoH is the next evolution of what relic started with DoW, so you'll be pretty comfortable with the design and the setup. DoW is a bit less intense and a bit more forgiving, I think, than CoH. They're both fantastic games, but I'd say CoH is a bit more on the "challenging" side while DoW is a bit more on the "fun" side.
 
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LMAO, their both dealing with Warhammer so I'm one happy rat, but you guys are going to make me want to play DOW again too.

As for COH vs DOW I gotta go with DOW. I'm tired of WW2 games. It was fun for a bit but I think I made it halfway through the game and decided "I really don't want to kill nazis anymore." Chamr's points on the challenging vs fun sounds about right.

The fun thing about DOW was that it was fun. I know that sounds stupid but there is no technical way I can explain it. Let's put it this way I liked the original so much that I actually replayed it again immediatly on the Hard setting. Something I almost never do. Chamr I played DoW when it first came out and the original game was great. It seem to be balanced fairly well. Then Winter Assault came out and I just didn't like it. I never finished it. I guess it has to do with the fact that I don't like the units that I was forced to use. Then Dark Crusade came out and it let me play Orcs without having to go online. If you really want a challenge try playing the Orc race. They are totally different from Space Marines in how you manage them (quite unique I thought)

Now Mark of Chaos, You get to pause???? You mean I played through the whole game without knowing about the pause button???? Stupid tutorial doesn't say a word about the pause button or I just forgot about it. I'll have to check the manual or just push every button on my keyboard till I find that sucker. Thanks though, it will make this run through a lot easier.

If Magerette likes strategy games like Dominions 3 then she might like DoW or MoC. Best thing about MoC is that there are no resources to gather. Just fight with your best strategy and use you're gold after the battle.

It's always fun introducing new players to my little obsession. It's too bad that the older Warhammer games have a problem with XP or I would highly recommend Chaos Gate, Final Liberation and Rites of War. These are turnbased and much easier if you're new to the Warhammer universe. I still play these but I have to use Virtual PC with WIN98 loaded into it.
 
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The fun thing about DOW was that it was fun. I know that sounds stupid but there is no technical way I can explain it.
I know exactly what you mean. It's called "fun factor". The mysterious, intangible thing about some games that makes them good in a hard to explain way. :)

If you really want a challenge try playing the Orc race. They are totally different from Space Marines in how you manage them (quite unique I thought)

They're the second race I've been playing with. Started with Tau (which I love). Talk about a departure! :) Part of the fun that two races in the same game can play so differently.

Now Mark of Chaos, You get to pause???? You mean I played through the whole game without knowing about the pause button???? Stupid tutorial doesn't say a word about the pause button or I just forgot about it. I'll have to check the manual or just push every button on my keyboard till I find that sucker. Thanks though, it will make this run through a lot easier.

Not to be snarky, but it's the top right button on your keyboard that says Pause on the top. :)
 
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