What ever happened to RPG games

Nerevarine · April 15, 2011

Captain Buzzkill said:
I really enjoy bacon.

Wrong! You cannot say that you objectively enjoy bacon; your enjoyment of bacon is purely subjective based on what appeals to you and what you personally enjoy from pork-related products

Captain Buzzkill · April 15, 2011

I'm pretty sure that the love of bacon, like boobies, is universal. I think I have some data that proves it, but it's washed out by bacon grease.

Nerevarine · April 15, 2011

Captain Buzzkill said:
I'm pretty sure that the love of bacon, like boobies, is universal. I think I have some data that proves it, but it's washed out by bacon grease.

Indeed, I just thought I'd continue the tone of this never-ending, looping in circles debate about objectivity-subjectivity

Captain Buzzkill · April 16, 2011

Then, I submit my reply in typical American fashion: If you don't like bacon, then you're probably a turrirrist.

DArtagnan · April 16, 2011

Thrasher said:
The uninstall game IS part of the whole game. You're not making sense. A game as a whole is ojecitvely bad if if destroys your ahrd drive. Period. If you can't see that, then it's pointless to continue.

Again, I think yourare arguing just for the sake of argusing, and just won;t admit being wrong, when it's clear you've lost. Be a man.

You have absolutely no argument except YOU think it's objectively bad as a whole, because of the bugged uninstall routine - and it's clear not everyone does.

As for being a man, I think you've got that covered for both of us. I can think of few things more manly than insisting upon ignorance and expecting another to to join in and pretend you're somehow right, when you're so obviously wrong.

BTW, I can accept the existence of a lot of idiots in the world. I see them everyday. It doesn't make facts suddenly subjective because they hold wrong opinions.

Not that it wasn't clear already, but thanks for making it extra obvious how arrogant you are about this - and how weak your point is

You're not making much of an impression - but at least it's fun.

Dasale · April 16, 2011

DArtagnan said:
You have absolutely no argument except YOU think it's objectively bad as a whole, because of the bugged uninstall routine - and it's clear not everyone does.

Your answers are only about a global judgment of the game, when Trasher is persistently answering you about isolated elements.

Put some synchronization in your exchange, that will perhaps make this garbage a little bit more interesting to read.

Thrasher · April 16, 2011

DArtagnan said:
You have absolutely no argument except YOU think it's objectively bad as a whole, because of the bugged uninstall routine - and it's clear not everyone does.

So, let's just make this clear. If a game unequivocably destroys your hardrive contents, then I think it's objectively bad. POR2 is not such a game. But if such a game exists, you don't think it would be objectively bad?

JDR13 · April 16, 2011

There is no doubt you can objectively say some games are better than others if you're talking about the entire product.

By "product" I mean the game, bugs/glitches, packaging, hardware compatibility, DRM, technical support, etc, all taken into consideration.

Dasale · April 16, 2011

Woo I won't even struggle with that, I'm like the musketeer I just think unbelievable you can't understand the relativity of a global opinion on a game.

Ha well I believed there was some misunderstanding on the subject because some posts was very unclear about that, but ok there's probably no confusion that it's only about a general opinion on a game not about precise elements. But no I won't argue about that, too obvious for me.

EDIT: Well I'll argue a little bit anyway. A suggestion try think it differently. If I ask you compare 3 apple with one pen, what you say? For me your posts mean you have an objective universal answer to that.

You don't see the link? Ok then compare 1 apple and 2 pen with 3 apple and 1 pen. Again for me your posts mean you have an objective universal answer to that. And for me that makes no sense.

SirJames · April 16, 2011

I'd like to see a modern attempt at a game like Arcanum, Fallout, Divine Divinty, Baldurs Gate.

More 2D isometric games with beautiful sprite art!!

That said, after finishing UFO:aftershock im playing UFO:afterlight and its awesome. Its got everything you need in a game. Its all the RPG I need! It fills the void left by games like Syndicate, for me. I imagine this is what syndicate 4 would play like.

I've never found a game where I got lost in the story. Try a book. Read Dune? That one took me away and I didn't want to come back.

DoctorNarrative · April 16, 2011

JDR13 said:
There is no doubt you can objectively say some games are better than others if you're talking about the entire product.

By "product" I mean the game, bugs/glitches, packaging, hardware compatibility, DRM, technical support, etc, all taken into consideration.

There is plenty of doubt, and you and Thrashers continued insistence otherwise is truly baffling. No game in this world is objectively good or bad. It has never existed, it will never exist, for all time. Every game you consider bad someone likes. Every game you consider good someone hates.

Talking about the "product as a whole" does not change that. DRM, a broken installer, a bug, whatever... despite these things there are still people who will love that product, without question. I do not see how you can ignore the simple truth that media is all subjective in quality, without question.

CelticFrost · April 16, 2011

There is a butcher down the street that makes the best bacon ever

JDR13 · April 16, 2011

DoctorNarrative said:
There is plenty of doubt, and you and Thrashers continued insistence otherwise is truly baffling. No game in this world is objectively good or bad. It has never existed, it will never exist, for all time. Every game you consider bad someone likes. Every game you consider good someone hates.

Talking about the "product as a whole" does not change that. DRM, a broken installer, a bug, whatever… despite these things there are still people who will love that product, without question. I do not see how you can ignore the simple truth that media is all subjective in quality, without question.

You're either not getting what I'm saying, or you're the one who is ignoring the truths here.

I'm not saying those things make the game good or bad, because I'm not talking about just the game, I'm talking about the product. No matter how you rate the product, the actual game itself is still subjective. There have been plenty of games that were objectively poor products, yet were subjectively great to me. (i.e. VTM: Bloodlines) You need to make the distinction between the media and the product.

skavenhorde · April 16, 2011

DoctorNarrative said:
No game in this world is objectively good or bad. It has never existed, it will never exist, for all time. Every game you consider bad someone likes. Every game you consider good someone hates.

You've never played E.T. : The Extra-Terrestial for the Atari. If anything could be considered objectively bad that would be it.

Just kidding, I'm sure there are some sadomasochists out there somewhere who enjoyed that game.

Corwin · April 17, 2011

Hey, I've even heard of some people who claim they liked Dungeon Lords!!

DoctorNarrative · April 17, 2011

JDR13 said:
I'm not saying those things make the game good or bad, because I'm not talking about just the game, I'm talking about the product. No matter how you rate the product, the actual game itself is still subjective. There have been plenty of games that were objectively poor products, yet were subjectively great to me. (i.e. VTM: Bloodlines) You need to make the distinction between the media and the product.

I suppose you could say a flaw itself is objectively bad, like the uninstall error previously mentioned. You said product as a whole before though, which includes gameplay and story elements which can make up for those flaws. The subjectivity arises when you factor in different people's responses to the objective issues.

In any case this thread is lowering my enjoyment level of RPGWatch at the moment, so I'm gonna let 'er go

Couchpotato · April 17, 2011

Corwin said:
Hey, I've even heard of some people who claim they liked Dungeon Lords!!

The horror that game was flawed from the beginning and it looked promising.

JDR13 · April 17, 2011

DoctorNarrative said:
You said product as a whole before though, which includes gameplay and story elements which can make up for those flaws.

For the game yes, but it doesn't change facts about the overall product. I understand what you're saying, but I think it's two separate things we're talking about.

I agree about this thread though. In my subjective opinion, it's grown pretty stale.

DArtagnan · April 17, 2011

Agreed, time to leave it alone

Relayer · April 18, 2011

What ever happened to RPG gamers????

JK

What ever happened to RPG games

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