Pillars of Eternity - Short Q&A @ RPGCodex

Game looks very nice overall, though I'm not particularly excited about this kind of "going back in time" in terms of gameplay and style.

But if I'm getting a quality game in BG style, I'll consider it worth the investment - and then some.

Obviously, I'd prefer something representing an actual evolution, but I never expected that from these fan-service Kickstarters.

It's all good :)

I find your post amusing considering all the whining on the official beta forums (and even here) about the game not being enough like the IE games.
 
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
7,313
When I watched the livestream, there were many points where the game reminded me very much of the first BG title. Which was a good thing, as I like BG very much, even if it has the potential to disappoint. Expectations are easy to disappoint, and I have to admit that the combat looked boring. Then again, it was just a short glimpse at the game, and I guess this one is more suited to playing it yourself than watching someone else play it.
Sadly, I already seem the crapstorm brewing from the Codex. No game is going to live up to Baldur's Gate, but at least we can have something new that captures some of the spirit of those games.
This game looks more like BG1, and that was (I just looked) on place 17 of the top 70 list, which just translates to that the original isn't that very highly regarded on the Codex, either, as it has many people who very much dislike it. Which just means that it would be rather surprising if this became a Codex favorite. That wasn't to happen anyway.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
804
Location
Austria
it's very easy to over analyze and be negative. After playing the older beta backer demos my concern was more for the graphics(characters blended in with the background) and combat. However after watching the twitch gameplay both of my gripes have been addressed! I think the game looks and plays great!

I recommend to just wait for release and try to play it before reading reviews and what other people are saying. I've done this with DAI and I have really enjoyed it without having someone's complaint attached to it in the back of my mind. Now when I read about how many people say it's flawed, I realize I didn't notice while I played and enjoyed it more.
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
350
Location
USA, New Jersey
it's very easy to over analyze and be negative. After playing the older beta backer demos my concern was more for the graphics(characters blended in with the background) and combat. However after watching the twitch gameplay both of my gripes have been addressed! I think the game looks and plays great!

I recommend to just wait for release and try to play it before reading reviews and what other people are saying. I've done this with DAI and I have really enjoyed it without having someone's complaint attached to it in the back of my mind. Now when I read about how many people say it's flawed, I realize I didn't notice while I played and enjoyed it more.
Actually game still has visibility problems. Also combat is still not OK. But OE is not done balancing it.
I hope by release it is will be much much better.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2014
Messages
3,819
I recommend to just wait for release and try to play it before reading reviews and what other people are saying.
That's a given. I backed the game on Kickstarter and even paid for the first expansion. So I'll definitely play it.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
804
Location
Austria
The thing I like about these old-school engines, is that they are about the right scope for indie budgets. As they refine and iterate on these new engines (including PoE, D:OS and Shadowrun) we will hopefully have solid platforms upon which the devs can create good RPG content for years, at budget levels RPG fans can happily provide.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
Messages
12,085
I don't know why people keep saying PoE *can't* be as good as Baldur's Gate. Maybe it will be, maybe it won't, but I sure as heck hope we haven't collectively agreed to give up on another game as comprehensively well-put-together and enjoyable as BG.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
2,470
Location
USA
Josh Sawyer is trying to create a classless system without dump stats, but actually with classes that leads to classes that'll play all the same. :(

I would not buy it on day 1, but I already backed it.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
19,813
Location
Germany
Josh Sawyer is trying to create a classless system without dump stats, but actually with classes that leads to classes that'll play all the same. :(
Yup. It sounds like the D&D 4E of cRPGs. Wonderfully balanced, but only cosmetic differences.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
804
Location
Austria
I don't know why people keep saying PoE *can't* be as good as Baldur's Gate. Maybe it will be, maybe it won't, but I sure as heck hope we haven't collectively agreed to give up on another game as comprehensively well-put-together and enjoyable as BG.

I was going to say the same thing earlier, but decided not to make my post too long. :p Graphics sure have advanced these days, but not gameplay. There's a reason these nostalgia projects are popular…a reason beyond simple nostalgia.

But I didn't want to seem like I'm all down on a game I haven't played yet. I am still looking forward to PoE and haven't played the beta. The videos I've seen look pretty good. I like the text-adventure stuff in particular. The videos don't give me the best sense of character development, however, which is maybe the most-important thing to me in an RPG. I wish they'd just use D&D rules. I wish developers in general would use existing PnP RPG rule sets more, whatever the game might be. Everyone wants to make their own rule system, which is almost inevitably worse than any PnP RPG system. I get that mechanics in an RPG aren't as important to others, but it's a big one to me.

Josh Sawyer is trying to create a classless system without dump stats, but actually with classes that leads to classes that'll play all the same. :(

This is my understanding. I'm no expert on the subject and haven't played the beta, but this is what I gather from people saying every character is some kind of wizard hybrid. I said "watered down" attributes earlier, but perhaps I should have said "homogenized." A wide variety of character builds is what I really like, especially in a party-based RPG. I sure hope characters don't feel too "samey" in the final game. We shall see.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
4,813
If the system was that homogenized, you wouldn't have threads after threads of this or that class being shoehorned into a single role since the start of the BB.

Obsidian did listen to the whining...in some cases.
 
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
7,313
Just remember, you asked for it. :p

And, no, the paper linked in this original post was written in response to the initial outcry after the beta was first released, I believe, not the latest build.

Old info yeah, but a lot of the complaints end up being semantic arguments about why a power stat like "Might" is called might if it relates to powers more geared to mental statistics in other games like "intelligence". In the end one wonders if he had named it "Power" to begin with whether these arguments would have happened at all.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
695
Location
Barva, Costa Rica
It is not like name Power instead of Might was not suggested multiple times. They decided to ignore it.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2014
Messages
3,819
Sometimes i wonder how would have those beloved classics (like baldur's gates or fallouts) turned out if they were also designed by a community of fanatic rpg fans :)
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
2,468
Many people will be comparing PoE to BG, but I will just accept PoE for what it is going to be - a new cRPG capturing some of the spirit of the Infinity Engine games.

I think if you try to compare it to BG you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Just my opinion, though. :)

I think you're right about that. Many people are judging this game through a narrow filter based on their IE experience. (Witness the endless commiseration over the Wizard's spell list.) In the end though, I think it will more properly be judged on its own merits. In particular, the story, character interactions, cultural elements, exploration, and end game. These are components that likely can't be fully assessed from the beta releases and may take a while to properly digest.
 
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
5,521
Location
Seattle
I think you're right about that. Many people are judging this game through a narrow filter based on their IE experience. (Witness the endless commiseration over the Wizard's spell list.) In the end though, I think it will more properly be judged on its own merits. In particular, the story, character interactions, cultural elements, exploration, and end game. These are components that likely can't be fully assessed from the beta releases and may take a while to properly digest.

Story is good for 2-3 play through but gameplay and combat is what makes you come back to play it for 10 years and back KS projects.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2014
Messages
3,819
Story is good for 2-3 play through but gameplay and combat is what makes you come back to play it for 10 years and back KS projects.

Three times is how many I've replayed the BG series; I have to admit it's mostly boring now.
 
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
5,521
Location
Seattle
Three times is how many I've replayed the BG series; I have to admit it's mostly boring now.

Yes, but BG does not really have a story that supports more than 2 plays. BG1 has no difference in story, BG2 has in chapter 2. Only real difference is which companions you take.
The rest of playability comes from gameplay quality of those games.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2014
Messages
3,819
I wish they'd just use D&D rules. I wish developers in general would use existing PnP RPG rule sets more, whatever the game might be.
P&P rules maybe, D&D no way. D&D has evolved over the last ten years to suit computer-based play, and gotten severely homogenized along the way. IMO it's no longer a good option for CRPGs.

A wide variety of character builds is what I really like, especially in a party-based RPG. I sure hope characters don't feel too "samey" in the final game. We shall see.
I feel exactly the same. Classless party-based games sound like a death knell to me.

But hey, there's still Knights of the Chalice 2! Pierre's stuff is so authentic you might have a stroke. He's using OGL, not newer D&D systems.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
2,470
Location
USA
P&P rules maybe, D&D no way. D&D has evolved over the last ten years to suit computer-based play, and gotten severely homogenized along the way. IMO it's no longer a good option for CRPGs.


I feel exactly the same. Classless party-based games sound like a death knell to me.

But hey, there's still Knights of the Chalice 2! Pierre's stuff is so authentic you might have a stroke. He's using OGL, not newer D&D systems.

What are you talking about?! It has become more suited for cRPGs not less. 2e was known as roleplay rules as they didn't really explain anything and were heavily based on lore limitation. They required DM input often(something cRPGs cannot do).

3e and afterwards used a more open system that tried to limit less and defined things more so DMs were less needed for rule arbitration. That suits cRPGs.

Don't blame PnP because NWN1 and NWN2 engines and story were crap. IWD2 was a cool game, so was ToEE (once bugs were fixed). KotC is 3.5e and it is awesome.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2014
Messages
3,819
Back
Top Bottom