Risen How high can one train strength?

dagoo7

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How high can you train strength sans potions? I am currently like lvl 14 in ch.2 and had strength up to about 55 or so. Then trained alchemy to lvl 3 and made like 9 strength pots. That got strength up to 100+ and nobody seems to be willing to train me further.

So is there a trainable limit to strength? If so, might just jump back to prior save and avoid maxing alch and taking strength pots until I can train str a bit more. If not (or can train significantly higher than 100), who is able to train me further? Any input appreciated.
 
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100 with or without item bonuses.

Basically, stripped naked - you can train all the way to 100, and not until then should you start drinking perma stat potions.
 
Thanks. Thats gonna take me like 6 more levels (45+ strength +10 more in alchemy). Whats max lvl anyways. Can I expect to be able to get to 21 or so prior to end of ch. 2?
 
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There's no max level, so it's really about whether you want to clear the world of monsters or be very thorough with quests.

I completed the game at 25-26, but 21 sounds very attainable in Chapter 2.
 
I've completed it twice at 26, and once at 27. Getting a level or two more is definetly doable if you clear most of the world, but there's really no point unless you really need the skill points. Usually, my characters are more than powerful enough by the time they pass 20.
 
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Yeah, the last few levels were pretty superfluous.

Still, I never really felt powerful as such - and I had plenty of frustration with the main antagonists, so maybe I did something wrong. All other monsters were easy towards the end, though, but since half the game consists of those same enemies, it was sort of a letdown not to completely dominate at the very end.

Then again, I'm sort a powergamer when I play computer games - so that's probably a factor.
 
True, you never get the feeling of being redicilously powerful that you got in Gothic. Especially Ogres and Ashbeasts (various versions) are capapble of tearing the player apart no matter what; even at the very end you have to focus when fighting them.

That has nothing to do with level or lack of skill points though. It's just the way the game is balanced - there is simply not enough armor in the game to protect properly against their blows. Also, max rank Fireball etc will still need quite a few shots to bring down the biggest enemies.

I suspect that if you pump the strength to 150-200 by using potions and items, you might bring them down fairly fast (2-3 power attacks), but they will always manage to bring you down at the same speed as well..
 
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I actually had around 200 strength near the end of the game. Also, even in full titan armor and the best two-hander in the game (Titanwing) with 10 in Sword Fighting - there were way too many deaths.

Ogres and Ashbeasts didn't pose a problem, because they're not very tricky in terms of their attack patterns.

No, the Elite/Undead Lizard groups posed the most problems - because when facing more than 1-2, they very quickly become a problem and I found it frustrating to reload so often due to one having gotten in a charged up hit - or one managing to flank me due to minor mistakes in positioning. The way the combat works is generally excellent, but the "soft focus" feature did cause quite a few slip-ups when facing multiple smart enemies.

I know it wouldn't have been so bad if I'd bothered to fight cautiously every single fight, but considering the amount of lizardmen you encounter - it does take a hell of a lot of patience to fight smart constantly. Then again, I think I got the hang of their AI - and yet they still dealt far too much damage in some cases.

Anyway, that's just because of how I like these games to play. I love that they're very hard in the beginning, and I love to strugge towards power. But eventually, I do think it's the best experience if the last ~25% of a game is a reward for your struggles - and in my opinion Risen just didn't reward you properly like that.

I wouldn't mind if it had been a case of making a bad build - as in choosing the wrong path to focus on. But given the relative simplicity of the character system - as in choose your weapon and focus on the stat that boosts damage - it really should have been a breeze to balance this out. I figure they simply wanted people to remain challenged throughout the game, and that's fine. It's just not what I personally prefer, and I strongly believe in rewarding players with a sensation of power, especially if you make them struggle on their way up. It just seems so natural to me, that I can't quite understand people who wouldn't want that as well.
 
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One of the things that I have always enjoyed about the gothic is the combat that many (at least more mainstream gamers) have complained about as being clunky and stilted. For some reason, this has always appealed to me as being more realistic. When you are swing around a huge piece of steel it would indeed be clunky, somewhat sloppy, and you would pay dearly for mistakes or mistiming.

For that reason, I don't mind having to worry about being smashed around by a top-tier enemy even at endgame. I find it rewarding enough that I can actually take down ogre/ashbeast at lvl 20+ and do noticeable damage with strikes as compared to being one-shotted and not even seeming to have hits register at lvl 10.

Similarly, 1 against many is likely gonna be an extremely dangerous situation as compared to 1on1 no matter how big your sword and even if enemies are weaker. So eventually being able to take these mobs of enemies on successfully without having to constantly reload or bravely running away gives me the requisite sense of achievement.

If ever there was a series of games for which the quick save was designed, it is this one.
 
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The issue, really, is that you never get so comfortable that you can avoid the many quicksaves, because so much of the game consists of fights with those very hard enemies.

Somehow, I think it's not quite right that people should depend on saving the game for every enemy they defeat. It feels wrong and out of place when you're running around in the finest armor and you look like you could take on the world in a heartbeat - and yet get crushed time and time again by enemies that should be nothing near what you're going to face at the end fight. Even in the best gear the game has to offer, the very same enemies pose the very same threat.
 
That's a good argument for the Easy setting. I know the idea of easy is depressing and just feels wrong usually but here it doesn't seem to change much except lowering the damage you take. (about 30%, I'm guessing) I tried for a while when fighting Costa's body guard before I had a decent weapon and it didn't feel too unbalanced. I might try the next game with it on from the start.
 
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Nah, I don't think easy would make a difference.

Generally, I don't support difficulty levels that simply scale damage or hit points - or other such trivial balance efforts. It's a necessary evil, I suppose - but it's a cop-out and can never compensate for poor balance.

The thing about Risen is that the balance is pretty spot-on for the majority of the game, and it's perfectly alright that you take a beating during your first several hours of playing. It's supposed to be like that.

What I'm not sure about is whether the endgame is supposed to remain as challenging throughout the ~40% of the game that it actually represents. Because that's where you start facing the same enemies over and over, and really - weapons, hitpoints, gear, and strength didn't really seem to matter except to sustain life for 1-2 more hits than when you first start encountering them. It's not really the numbers that are wrong, it's the way multi-enemy combat works.

The major problem is when facing more than 2 of them, because that's when it becomes unwieldy to maintain correct positioning and it becomes almost impossible to safely predict charged attacks - which will kill you in 1 hit even at 400+ life - unless you're 100% full.

Whether that was fully intentional and planned or not, I can't say - but I have to say I think it's poor game design, because you really want to give players a lasting sensation of power at the end. Unless, of course, you simply don't believe in that way of balancing a game.

However, Gothic 1 - which it seems to emulate closely - did manage to reward players at the end, or so I distinctly remember. I remember I tried to destroy Old Camp and everything in it at the end, and I succeeded. Something you could only dream about when starting. This is also possible in Risen, but it's trivial since your main enemies are MUCH MUCH tougher than what you face in Harbor Town or the Monestary.

However, with all that said, it's not really a huge issue. It was just a cause for some frustration with me, and it removed a significant portion of the pleasure I was expecting to experience near the end-game. I was truly enjoying myself until I realised that nothing would really change in terms of making combat less challenging, and my character would never really be a bad-ass. But it's still a fantastic game in most ways, and I wish PB all the best in future efforts.
 
I posted something of a tactic against most creatures in another thread. I'll copy it in here:

Here's a nice strategy that works against almost all creatures in the game, both
humanoid and beasts:
- Get rank 6 Axe or rank 8 Swords, so you can use 2H + Shield.
- Start out with a power attack (charged attack) when they are somewhat close (but not on top of you). The power attack has much longer range than most attacks.
- If you want to play safe, start out blocking.
- When you see that he's doing something of a pause in his attacks, jump back once or twice by double tapping S.
- Use the power attack (charged attack).
- Block untill he pauses.
- Jump back once or twice.
- Power attack.
- Repeat.

You can kill anything using that strategy. Ashbeasts, Ghouls, Lizard Elites/Undead/Warriors/Priests, etc etc. It doesn't work without a shield though, since most creatures will simply smack your sword/axe/staff away and hit you. Without a shield, you'd be forced to dodge around a lot more, mostly by moving backwards by constantly double tapping S untill an opportunity presents itself where you can use the power attack.

Generally, the power attack is the key to beating the heaviest monsters around - it's just that much more powerful than other attacks, especially due to its range.

I developed this due to the high number of lizards in the game. It works exceptionally well against them, and will usually one or two-shot them (except the Elites/Undeads, who can take three power attacks). I've killed entire packs of them without taking a scratch by constantly using that tactic. The only difference I ever notice when fighting lizards nowadays is whether or not I need one, two or three power attacks.

Ogres and Ashbeasts, however, have certain attacks that actually might hit, and they hit so hard it might just lead to a death.
 
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Yeah, I've defeated many enemies using this tactic as well - but it doesn't really change the odds much when facing more than 2 enemies, because then they'll have the opportunity to strike back without you really being able to respond quickly enough.

But I realise that playing it very safe and cautious can get you killed a lot less, I just found the amount of encounters of a magnitude that didn't really inspire me to be careful in each fight. I'd rather just have it over with and drink a few potions.

Maybe I'm too slow or something, but the dodge/charge thing just didn't seem as sure-fire as you make it seem, unless we're talking 1-2 enemies.

Problem is that you're facing 3-5 packs all the time post chapter 2.

Strangely enough, I found ogres and ashbeasts trivial in comparison - because they tend to come in fewer numbers. 1-2 of those are very easy to deal with, because they basically don't defend themselves and it's all about dodging and timing against them.

Lizards, on the other hand, are much more prone to blocking and responding with the quick attack which means your charge move will only help you at first - and it won't be a guarenteed hit unless you make sure they're not blocking.
 
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