How many people came from PnP RPGs?

How'd we get onto the future of PC gaming? Of course it's not going anywhere. The people who keep saying it's dying are the ones trying to sell you more restricted, more expensive, and more company-controlled systems, so if you believe that, I'd like to take a moment of your time to discuss an *cough* investment opportunity.

At the moment I can only think of three current games that look like they'll give me the old PnP RPG feeling, and that's Divinity: Original Sin, Wasteland 2, and Age of Decadence.

Menigal said:

How'd we get onto the future of PC gaming? Of course it's not going anywhere. The people who keep saying it's dying are the ones trying to sell you more restricted, more expensive, and more company-controlled systems, so if you believe that, I'd like to take a moment of your time to discuss an *cough* investment opportunity.

At the moment I can only think of three current games that look like they'll give me the old PnP RPG feeling, and that's Divinity: Original Sin, Wasteland 2, and Age of Decadence.

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Well, you were talking about "deep and immersive" RPGs, not strictly the PnP experience.

But, as with most things, it's a subjective concept.

I think games like Witcher 2, Skyrim, Risen 3, D:OS, DE:HR, and so on are all examples of relatively recent games fitting that particular category, at least for me.

As for current or upcoming games, the indie/KS scene is exploding. PoE, Torment, Shadowrun, WL2, Dead State, etc. are all games I wouldn't have dared to hope for a few years back.

Not that they're necessarily "my thing", mind you, but they're games that would have had a hard time getting made without the Kickstarter model.

DArtagnan said:

Well, you were talking about "deep and immersive" RPGs, not strictly the PnP experience.

But, as with most things, it's a subjective concept.

I think games like Witcher 2, Skyrim, Risen 3, D:OS, DE:HR, and so on are all examples of relatively recent games fitting that particular category, at least for me.

As for current or upcoming games, the indie/KS scene is exploding. PoE, Torment, Shadowrun, WL2, Dead State, etc. are all games I wouldn't have dared to hope for a few years back.

Not that they're necessarily "my thing", mind you, but they're games that would have had a hard time getting made without the Kickstarter model.

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Well, I was using the terms more or less interchangeably. It's early and the coffee's not kicked in yet. I'd forgotten about Torment and Shadowrun. They might do the job, too.

I think the indie/kickstarter scene will give us some interesting stuff, and will probably get more of my business than the big boys, but I'm not sure it'll be the RPG sanctuary everyone hopes it'll be. I really hope it is, but I just think they require a bit too much work for most teams to pull off. I expect we'll see more fantasy-themed action games, some linear, narrative-driven JRPG/Bioware-derived games, and a few kinda clunky "old school" efforts dominating the market, with the occasional bright spot from the more well-established teams.

Of course, I'd much rather see a smaller, more focused not-quite-RPG than see a broken, half-finished, poorly implemented Skyrim-wannabe any day, so maybe that's the way it should be.

Menigal said:

Well, I was using the terms more or less interchangeably. It's early and the coffee's not kicked in yet. I'd forgotten about Torment and Shadowrun. They might do the job, too.

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Don't know about Torment, but Shadowrun is a fun "light" experience that's more about the rare cyberpunk ambience and a nice story with a few RPG elements.

I think the indie/kickstarter scene will give us some interesting stuff, and will probably get more of my business than the big boys, but I'm not sure it'll be the RPG sanctuary everyone hopes it'll be. I really hope it is, but I just think they require a bit too much work for most teams to pull off. I expect we'll see more fantasy-themed action games, some linear, narrative-driven JRPG/Bioware-derived games, and a few kinda clunky "old school" efforts dominating the market, with the occasional bright spot from the more well-established teams.

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I doubt we'll see a lot of action games from the RPG kickstarter scene, as action games tend to be more expensive and require more art and animations than the more old-school approach.

I don't really fret about it, and when games like Star Citizen can be crowdfunded - the sky's the limit, really.

Of course, I'd much rather see a smaller, more focused not-quite-RPG than see a broken, half-finished, poorly implemented Skyrim-wannabe any day, so maybe that's the way it should be.

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I just want games made from the heart, and I think we have a much greater chance of seeing that happen with kickstarter/crowdfunding.

That said, just because something is from the heart, it doesn't mean the brain is particularly involved

We'll see a ton of mediocre stuff, and I happen to think games like Shadowrun, PoE, AoD, WL2 are all within that level of quality. Certainly not greatness from where I'm sitting.

DArtagnan said:

I just want games made from the heart, and I think we have a much greater chance of seeing that happen with kickstarter/crowdfunding.

That said, just because something is from the heart, it doesn't mean the brain is particularly involved

We'll see a ton of mediocre stuff, and I happen to think games like Shadowrun, PoE, AoD, WL2 are all within that level of quality. Certainly not greatness from where I'm sitting.

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Well said. I'm willing to put up with a bit of roughness if it's clear they really cared about what they were doing. Troika's games were a perfect example of this. Something like Arcanum, which I may dip into again to see if it can still grab me, had some serious issues, but you can feel the love in it, and that makes it a bit easier to see past the flaws.

And for action games, I didn't mean action like, say the Batman games, but more along the lines of arcadey things like Runers through to Diablo-clones. Of course, I can have just as much fun with a modern take on Gauntlet or Golden Axe as I can with a Pool of Radiance; it's just a different experience. I don't want anyone to think I'm against those sorts of games.

Menigal said:

Well said. I'm willing to put up with a bit of roughness if it's clear they really cared about what they were doing. Troika's games were a perfect example of this. Something like Arcanum, which I may dip into again to see if it can still grab me, had some serious issues, but you can feel the love in it, and that makes it a bit easier to see past the flaws.

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Yeah, it's essentially rough-edged games, simplistic games, or nothing in most of these cases. I'll take a rough-edged game in that scenario any day of the week and twice on sundays

And for action games, I didn't mean action like, say the Batman games, but more along the lines of arcadey things like Runers through to Diablo-clones. Of course, I can have just as much fun with a modern take on Gauntlet or Golden Axe as I can with a Pool of Radiance; it's just a different experience. I don't want anyone to think I'm against those sorts of games.

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Oh, I love a certain kind of action RPG - or action game with RPG elements, if you will.

What I'm REALLY sick of seeing from the indie scene, are the zillion quirky little games using archaic designs with cartoon or "cute" graphics. Games like Angry Birds or the sickening amount of Tower Defense games out there make me queasy

Not so much because it's necessarily bad to reuse ancient designs, but because they're getting WAY too much attention, because so many "new" or "casual" gamers never experienced it before. Well, I think so - but that's because I prefer evolution rather than devolution.

Then again, I've always been particularly quick to tire of things, even when they're good.

Started with pnp Rpgs back in the 1992, with dnd 2edition. I stopped playing about a decade ago due to the lack of time.

No crpg managed to come close to the pnp feeling.