Diablo 3 - Long Term Planning Failures @ Joystiq

Joystiq's Rowan Kaiser writes that Blizzard has failed with Diablo III's long-term design:

Our motivation when playing games can be viewed in two parts: short term (is the moment-to-moment gameplay interesting?) and long term (how is this going to end up?). This isn't an either/or; most games have aspects of both motivators. Diablo 3 succeeds marvelously at the shortest-term level. Its combat is refined, swift, and fun, keeping the game interesting for some time on its own.

But "some time" isn't the goal, as Blizzard seems to want people playing into a longer "endgame." Most RPGs use story in combination with mechanics, but even if you enjoyed Diablo 3's story (and I did not), by the time you hit Inferno Difficulty you'll be on your fourth playthrough, at least. Instead, what Diablo 3 uses is loot. Kill a boss, get some random items, those random items may improve your character. This has worked well for Diablo in the past, alongside other games like Borderlands. But I feel that Diablo 3's auction house system ruins this by making every item in the game potentially available for purchase with in-game gold or real-world cash.

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More information.

The auction house definitely killed all of the magic of what makes a diablo game great.

At first I tried doing 'magic find', but then I learned that all you should do is 'gold find' and then buy exactly what you want for any body part in the auction house for an amount of gold that equates to nothing more than a few minutes of collecting it.

There is no way that any level of magic find would provide any satisfaction for me since the absolute ideal items were always available at all times. It was also true in hardcore, except that the prices were slightly higher, but that just meant a few minutes more for collecting the gold.

Some people might say "hey, just don't use the AH". But that doesn't work in this case because the game loot is designed for you to use the AH. The drops are not adequate on your own to keep pushing forward in the gameplay without getting bogged down and dissapointed.

Agreed, this game is the biggest disappointment since HG:L. AH feels exactly like having a cheat code that the game all but forces you to use. Activision-Blizzard got greedy, hired a poor management team, and banked on their reputation to sell a lot of games. It worked this time.

zz said:

Some people might say "hey, just don't use the AH". But that doesn't work in this case because the game loot is designed for you to use the AH. The drops are not adequate on your own to keep pushing forward in the gameplay without getting bogged down and dissapointed.

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I beg to differ. I'm a fairly casual player, but I've not felt any need to use the AH, it's perfectly fun without it.

In any case, the loot in AH had to come from drops in the first place.

I spent about 30k on my level 16 character (money collected from selling stuff at auctions), buying stuff with "buyout" price and went from about 50dps to 200dps. For my alt I limited myself to only buy stuff at 2000 credits or less and I still dish out so much damage that I rush through levels at an amazing pace.

kalniel said:

I beg to differ. I'm a fairly casual player, but I've not felt any need to use the AH, it's perfectly fun without it.

In any case, the loot in AH had to come from drops in the first place.

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You don't have to use the AH it's just that "Magic Find" is useless and uneventful. You can "find" anything for sale already.

This was not possible in D2 where finding items or trading with other players had weight.

kalniel said:

I beg to differ. I'm a fairly casual player, but I've not felt any need to use the AH, it's perfectly fun without it.

In any case, the loot in AH had to come from drops in the first place.

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Which difficulty are you on, and with which character class? My Barb was not having fun in hell, sans AH.

I think the usual response would be :
"No-one is forced to visit this Auction House".
Sometimes less is more.
And letting go, too.

Do people really play this game 4 times? Are they crazy?
While the game was fun for the first 20 hours or so, I really had to make myself finish it… There are better games on my shelf that need my attention.

I have played all 5 classes now up to level 10-20. It's a very polished game. I had assumed that Witch Doctor/Wizard and Monk/Barbarian would be similar to eachother but I was wrong, I was amazed on how distinct the classes are to eachother. You can definitely design your character to your own playstyle. One thing I noted is that as soon as you reach around level 10+ the game quickly becomes harder and a horde of opponents may end up hurting you if you haven't started to develop strategies.

The Monk is the most effortless to play I say thanks to being so tremendously though. When I play the monk flows through groups of enemies at a steady pace, almost in fluid motion but I barely use the specials. Even if my monk are the highest level now I can barely remember more specials than my roundkick and a heal.

The Barbarian depends on fast killing so it's much more about jumping into a fight and smash everything quickly. Even if I started Barbarian much later it quickly became a favorite for being so quickpaced. I just jump into the fight, then stomp the ground, then begin to cleave in all directions while smashing my hammer at the direction monsters are coming from.

The Wizard requires some tinkering. The class becomes interesting once you gain enough levels to have unlocked most of your slots, at that point you can try to build a strategy that works for you. Since you are weak you have to think of how to defend yourself and survive so you have use for both areaspells, crowdcontrol, buffs and debuffs. Since it's very dependent on dishing out high damage you can become really crippled due to having a weak wand.

Witch Doctor is the weird kid on the block. The class can barely handle itself until about 10-15 levels. It's your typical summoner class that rely on summoned allies to do the work for you. Hurling urns filled with spiders at foes is definitely weird. The class is a lot about trying to make sure there's as many summoned things at the screen as possible rather than caring about where the enemies are (as long as they aren't adjacent to you). After 10-15 levels I started to get a good feel on how I am supposed to play the class.

The Demon Hunter makes the game feel like a shoot-em-up. I was very much helped by switching left/rightclick so I use leftclick to fire stronger hate-consuming powers and rightclick for my regular attack. That way I do not walk towards foes when trying to shoot them, which is easily done and deadly when you are a squishy ranged fighter.

I tried a lot with magic find, and as soon as I gave up and bought a few of the cheapest items on the AH, my damage tripled instantly.

The reason so much good stuff is on the AH is because it is like the output of millions of players. For an individual, magic find does not keep up with the game to progress forward.

Vindicator said:

Do people really play this game 4 times? Are they crazy?

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Quoted for truth and a half. Seriously, I play the game thru on regular difficulty, gathering items as normal, game is satisfying. Why would anyone want to play the exact same game w/ the same character 3 more times?

Diablo is the only title I know of that people feel compelled to play in this delusional fashion.

Santos said:

Which difficulty are you on, and with which character class? My Barb was not having fun in hell, sans AH.

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I am not compelled to use the AH. I do not play the game.

Alrik Fassbauer said:

I think the usual response would be :
"No-one is forced to visit this Auction House".
Sometimes less is more.
And letting go, too.

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I remembered being scoffed at for stating a basic evidence: the inclusion of an auction house in a game like D3 would come with strong constraints on game design, in order to make the AH a game feature to be used.

Nobody forces me to visit the auction house. I do not play Diablo3. Would I play, the game would strongly invite me to do so, though.

The idea behind this kind of design is well known by now, Blizzard are great game designers who know their job. They know how to profile a customer basis and how to bank on it.
Drive as much people as possible to use the AH but do not make the use mandatory: leave enough room for the masochist type to endure the pain of playing without using the AH. They are few and will serve as a living example the game can be played and enjoyed without using the AH. No pain, no gain. And what pride claiming around you defeat a game without using the AH.

Santos said:

Which difficulty are you on, and with which character class? My Barb was not having fun in hell, sans AH.

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Hell, with Barbarian, Demon Huntress and Wizard (have a lower level monk as well).

The Demon Huntress has always solo'd. The Barbarian has entirely co-op'd with my wife playing a wizard. The Wizard has done a mix of solo and some co-op. The monk was a mix as well.

Once you reach Inferno - you either use the AH - or you extend your frustration and grinding by a factor of ten.

Then again, the game is a complete failure in terms of longevity - and there's no saving it without a complete redesign of core mechanics. That won't happen.

Good thing I've all but forgotten it exists already.

This Auction House thing more and more reminds me of Mr. Kotick ... And everything I read about this game makes me believe more and more that this new version of D3 was his invention ... And primary task ... It bears his mark/signature, very much, from what I've been reading about him ...

DArtagnan said:

Once you reach Inferno - you either use the AH - or you extend your frustration and grinding by a factor of ten.

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I'm not sure I will reach Inferno - as I said, I'm a fairly casual player and have already got my monies worth from D3. The fact I've already replayed through several difficulties is more than I do for most games - in fact Diablo, Starcraft and the Witcher games are the only ones I can remember doing that with. Most games I experiment a bit to find a suitable difficulty and then play through them at that difficulty.

I'm not sure what your comment about longevity refers to - you say the problem with inferno is you have to grind or use the AH. If you ignore the AH then isn't that giving you the longevity you wanted (via grinding)? I'm not sure what other forms of longevity these kind of games provide (PvP is coming later I guess).

kalniel said:

I'm not sure I will reach Inferno - as I said, I'm a fairly casual player and have already got my monies worth from D3. The fact I've already replayed through several difficulties is more than I do for most games - in fact Diablo, Starcraft and the Witcher games are the only ones I can remember doing that with. Most games I experiment a bit to find a suitable difficulty and then play through them at that difficulty.

I'm not sure what your comment about longevity refers to - you say the problem with inferno is you have to grind or use the AH. If you ignore the AH then isn't that giving you the longevity you wanted (via grinding)? I'm not sure what other forms of longevity these kind of games provide (PvP is coming later I guess).

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Longevity isn't how long it's physically possible to play the game, but how entertaining it is in the long-term.

It's not particularly entertaining to sprint head-first against a wall over and over again, hoping the wall drops a helmet that alleviates the pain for the next sprint.

The game has basically zero replayability for the classes - and it has an incredibly weak loot design. Meaning the "carrot" is moldy when it should be nice and fresh.

DArtagnan said:

Longevity isn't how long it's physically possible to play the game, but how entertaining it is in the long-term.

It's not particularly entertaining to sprint head-first against a wall over and over again, hoping the wall drops a helmet that alleviates the pain for the next sprint.

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Then I'd suggest these kind of games aren't for you. They are repetitive by their very nature and progress is determined by character/loot/skill development. As I mentioned, I've had more enjoyment out of the game than I have many other games that cost more, so longevity-wise it's already been value for money, and I'll still pop in occasionally for some hack and slash fun. It's not like PS:T which I enjoyed, but lasted me less time than D3 did, and I don't go back to it.

I've found replaying different classes to be quite fun in and of itself - they play very differently - but the appreciation is in the way your character plays and defeats the monsters, it's still the same game you're playing through.

As for the loot system - it's no better or worse than other games in the genre in my experience. It doesn't invent something new, so most other games contain the same kind of mix of enhancements, uniques, story-based items and sets.