Elder Scrolls Online - Editorial @ Analog Addiction

Analog Addiction has a new article for Elder Scrolls Online about how we all should give the game a chance. I agree with them as I see way to many negative previews.

One quote, as over-used as it has become pretty much sums up how I see The Elder Scrolls Online, “Rome wasn’t built in a day”. If there is one thing that really grinds my gears after playing through the closed beta for The Elder Scrolls Online, are people saying it is a “sub-par Skyrim”.

It is that kind of tunnel vision thinking which can really affect how well a game is received. The only thing ZeniMax have done to get a negative response is their persistence with pushing for a subscription based model. Other than that, they have done nothing wrong to get silly comparisons.

Sure, it has the title ‘Elder Scrolls’, but it is a completely different experience than what most gamers associate the title with. It has its own style and that is because of two things: it is an MMORPG and it is being developed by a different developer. Having an MMORPG of Skyrim would never work, if anything it might work as a multiplayer game but not more than that.

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More information.

Sorry, but I played the beta. It was bad. Bad world design, bad quests, bad dialogue, bad graphics...I could go on. The reason the game is getting bad press is because it is bad.

I've never understood people who say, "Yeah, but in a year it will be so much better." So people should endure months upon months of bad gaming, nay, pay monthly for bad gaming?

Lastly, you mess with the Elder Scrolls IP and you deserve to be compared to Skyrim. The game deserves to be roasted for its blatant Skyrim cash-in. You really think the MMO would have been made if Skyrim didn't sell millions?

So um, overall, I really hate ESO...

It must've been your first MMO or something. The world and quest design is second to none as far as MMOs go. Only Secret World and TOR comes close in terms of quests, and WoW in terms of world design, and even they're left behind once you get into the level 10+ range of ESO.

That doesn't mean it'll be a smashing success, but if it fails it certainly won't be due to the world or quest design.

I'd say the console version will make or break ESO: They've made certain sacrifices in terms of interface that the PC crowd won't like, so they're depending on the console crowd to make up for that. Will they succeed? Hard to say, console gamers seemed to really like Skyrim, but that doesn't mean they'll be hooked on a full blown MMO.

Yeah, the things Brumbek bring up as "bad" are among the best parts of the game - which I'd expect even the naysayers would have to acknowledge.

As for the interface, I think it's excellent and very fast. Some developers underestimate the importance of a responsive UI, and SWtOR comes to mind here - which has one of the slowest response times I know of in an MMO UI.

The limited arsenal during play could be a concern for certain MMO players - but it's still larger than Skyrim, which doesn't even have a hotbar in the traditional sense and where the majority of skills are passive.

That said, it doubles at level 15 - when you get weapon switch with a minimal delay. This means you'll have 12 active powers coupled with light attack, heavy attack, sneak, dodge and so on. That should be enough for most players, really.

Yes, I agree, but certain things are rather clumsy due to the console interface. For example trading with other players - all forms of social interaction requires you to hover over the player, pull up the social interaction wheel and select the action. It's quite slow and requires more clicks than it would in most MMOs.

Want to change chat settings? You'll need to flip through obscure menus instead of just right clicking the chat box or somewhere near it. Whispering someone? Either use the social interaction wheel or type the whole thing. Can't just click the name in the chat box as in most MMOs. If you're in a group you keep getting into the wrong "phase/shard", so the players in your group are invisible and you have to use the "travel to" feature, which is also found in some obscure menu instead of simply clicking it.

And so on and so forth. It gets tedious after a while because most MMOs are smoother when it comes to interaction between players. This is exclusively down to the console version though, so I really hope they make a "PC only" interface. Not for hotkeys, but for interaction. This isn't Skyrim or Mass Effect where a half decent PC interface will only cause slight frustration - ESO is in direct competition with WoW, where the interface is so smooth it's practically shining.

Maylander said:

Yes, I agree, but certain things are rather clumsy due to the console interface. For example trading with other players - all forms of social interaction requires you to hover over the player, pull up the social interaction wheel and select the action. It's quite slow and requires more clicks than it would in most MMOs.

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Hmm, that does sound a bit silly. I haven't actually traded with anyone yet.

Want to change chat settings? You'll need to flip through obscure menus instead of just right clicking the chat box or somewhere near it. Whispering someone? Either use the social interaction wheel or type the whole thing. Can't just click the name in the chat box as in most MMOs. If you're in a group you keep getting into the wrong "phase/shard", so the players in your group are invisible and you have to use the "travel to" feature, which is also found in some obscure menu instead of simply clicking it.

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I get what you're saying - and that's pretty stupid if they don't fix it. The phase thing has been a problem in other MMOs as well, and I guess it's one of the downsides of the Megaserver that's hard to get around. I hope they come up with smarter solutions, though it's probably never going to be ideal - as the server would have to accurately predict where players prefer to be. It's still relatively new technology - so I'm hoping it's the kind of thing that gets fixed over time.

And so on and so forth. It gets tedious after a while because most MMOs are smoother when it comes to interaction between players. This is exclusively down to the console version though, so I really hope they make a "PC only" interface. Not for hotkeys, but for interaction. This isn't Skyrim or Mass Effect where a half decent PC interface will only cause slight frustration - ESO is in direct competition with WoW, where the interface is so smooth it's practically shining.

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True. Basic interaction between players needs to be functional and easy in any MMO.

Since I've only had limited interaction with others in ESO, I haven't personally experienced any of these issues, but it sounds pretty bad.

Age of Conan and other games had similar issues for a long time, and it's the kind of thing you just can't have at launch - so I'm hoping it's being fixed as we speak.

Maylander said:

It must've been your first MMO or something. The world and quest design is second to none as far as MMOs go. Only Secret World and TOR comes close in terms of quests, and WoW in terms of world design, and even they're left behind once you get into the level 10+ range of ESO.

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It's not my first MMO, and I still think that the world and quest design was poor and on the whole, bland and boring. Quite like Skyrim, when I think about it, only far more limited.

But if the game will be good in a year, then I am all for writing that the game is good. In a a year. Right now I see now point in 'giving something a chance', especially not for full price + subscription.

fungus said:

It's not my first MMO, and I still think that the world and quest design was poor and on the whole, bland and boring. Quite like Skyrim, when I think about it, only far more limited.

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What MMOs have had superior quest design and world design, to your mind?

I'm curious, because while ESO certainly has flaws - I struggle to remember an MMO where I've been more engaged and aware of why I was doing something.

TSW is the only game I can come up with that might have better quests - primarily because the writing is particularly strong.

SWtOR has passable writing and excellent voice acting, but the actual quests were extremely dull in most cases.

As for "world design" - I guess that means different things to different people. To me, ESO not only has one of the most immersive atmospheres out there - it's also extremely rewarding when it comes to exploring the world and the various landmarks.

Landscape and terrain has been very varied and there are so many things to find - including caves, open dungeons and so forth.

So, in what way is ESO so weak here, to you?

Maylander said:

…if it fails it certainly won't be due to the world or quest design.

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You're correct on that, as if it fails for me, it's because its price tag (Jessie J. won't agree though ).

Since the NDA has been lifted the reviews have been very positive. And for players that have moved past the first 10 lvls the reviews are even better. Finally, for the players that did the 50+ and 50++ content the reviewers seems to be very pleased with the content.

Zenimax has to show some love for the computer players and get the interface smoother.

Hastar said:

Finally, for the players that did the 50+ and 50++ content the reviewers seems to be very pleased with the content.

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I doubt that someone who doesn't like the game is going to spare the time to get to the Veteran ranks. Which is why I always find it funny when somebody tell game X is crap after they put over 100+ hours into it.

Every games has fans, the question is always: Do those fans like the same thing as me?

DArtagnan said:

What MMOs have had superior quest design and world design, to your mind?

I'm curious, because while ESO certainly has flaws - I struggle to remember an MMO where I've been more engaged and aware of why I was doing something.

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You just mentioned two. Yes, SWTORs quests are not great, but the story is good and well presented. I liked Age of Conan, at least until I found out that half of the game is unfinished mess.
I'll admit that ESO is better than some MMOs I had fun with, but those are years old - I do expect something better now. And in the end 'dull and bland' comes to personal preference, and ESO did not work for me at all, since the very first tutorial prison escape.

Of course, I wish best of luck to the game, if people find it fun, all power to them.

Gloo said:

You're correct on that, as if it fails for me, it's because its price tag (Jessie J. won't agree though ).

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Yeah I was kind of shocked that I actually got to make choices in how I approached some quest-lines - and that these choices were reflected in later parts of that quest line as well as other related quest-lines down the road. I played through two quest-lines in particular with two different characters over the course of several betas and the changes that making different choices caused were actually somewhat significant. Characters who returned to help me because I had saved them/ done something in a way which they favored were dead or absent or adversarial when I made different choices for example.

Oddly for an MMO this may actually have some better examples of choice and consequence in its secondary quest lines than the last two elder scrolls games; though that isn't a particularly high bar. It's also something I haven't seen in *many* mmos.

The sad part of all of this is that we are discussing how good a MMO is based on its quest and story! I hardly did any quest (even though it had quest in its name!) or even know the story of my favourite MMO of all time

Maylander said:

I'd say the console version will make or break ESO: They've made certain sacrifices in terms of interface that the PC crowd won't like, so they're depending on the console crowd to make up for that. Will they succeed? Hard to say, console gamers seemed to really like Skyrim, but that doesn't mean they'll be hooked on a full blown MMO.

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Final Fantasy XIV: A Real Reborn is an interesting case. I tried that for a few weeks and it's a pretty decent MMO as far as they go, with full console support on all platforms. And it works pretty well! The game also does fairly well with subscription count. I may go for another month or so. The world was pretty fun and there was actually a Final Fantasy style main story line with cut scenes.

Anyway, just to show that an MMO can be done well and be popular on consoles.

lostforever said:

The sad part of all of this is that we are discussing how good a MMO is based on its quest and story! I hardly did any quest (even though it had quest in its name!) or even know the story of my favourite MMO of all time

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Oh wait, haha. My first MMO experience was with Dark Age of Camelot and I was kind of blow away by the technology at the time. But quests? Hmmm, I guess it had some, but mostly I remember standing at one spot in a dungeon and grinding for a LONG time. And horses between towns. (And Realm vs. Realm of course, but that's a given.)

Thaurin said:

Oh wait, haha. My first MMO experience was with Dark Age of Camelot and I was kind of blow away by the technology at the time. But quests? Hmmm, I guess it had some, but mostly I remember standing at one spot in a dungeon and grinding for a LONG time. And horses between towns. (And Realm vs. Realm of course, but that's a given.)

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Standing in one place and grinding mobs can be so much fun provided you keep the right company

I'd say the RPG components of this game (exploration, quests, treasure hunting) are solid verging on very good. Certain issues with phasing and instancing take away from the grouping aspect people expect with MMOs, but the group content that IS there was very fun up to level 12 or so. Haven't made it past there to comment. There are some youtube channels that have released some non beta weekend content (17+) and it seemed just as solid as the 10 - 17 zones.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7mFkx1Um4KJZKkUHsSV1uA

Zenimax is targeting two groups with this game: console players that liked Skyrim and Oblivion, and MMORPG players that like persistent worlds. I like both, so this game works for me, but if you don't like single player story based questing or the tropes that go along with MMORPGs, then this game will probably bore you after a few weeks.

I'll be the first to admit I didn't play past level 10 in ESO so my opinion only applies to 1 starting area but, I have to agree with Brumbek that I found it quite boring. It's a really long tutorial that never drew me in at all.

Normally I'll read through quest content for a few dozens levels before I stop caring and just race for end-game. ESO's writing didn't even hold my interest through the cave in that regard. This might be because I'm not a TES fan so no lore to compare too though I'll point out I don't like Star Wars, haven't ever watched the original trilogy even but, found SWTOR far more interesting.

The beginning levels in most MMOs are rather boring compared to later stages but it at least felt like it took way longer to get to anything even remotely interesting in ESO than I've experienced in previous MMOs (except maybe FF XI).

Obviously I can hardly comment on World Design as a whole but the intro area I was in was a lot less interesting than GW 2 & WoW imo.