RPGWatch Feature - Morrowind Revisited

JuliusMagnus said:
Nice article.

It is really a matter of taste which mods one installs.

A few months ago I used this guide to install some mods.

I mostly installed bug fixes, new models, grass mods.
Click to expand...

I want to thank you and cuss you out at the same time because that guide was perfect. It was so good that I HAD to install Morrowind again and give it another go. One of my biggest problems would be that I would load too many mods and end up messing the game up. This guide made it so I wouldn't have to second guess myself on what would work and wouldn't work together.

Sooooo 2 days later I'm finally done installing all those mods, plus figuring out Wyre mash, MGE, MW_FPS, MPM, MGEgui and a few other utilities I know I'm forgetting. Of course I had to also scour TESnexus for anything else that looks good.

So now I'm done and this sucker looks better than Oblivion. I'm already very impressed with The LGNPC Project. Seyda Neen is about a thousand times more interesting this time. I'm looking forward to seeing what the other cities have to offer. Plus Silgrad's Tower, Tamreil Rebuilt and Annastiav sound a lot more interesting than the snooze fest I played in the Vanilla version.

Oh for gameplay I added Wakim's Game Improvements, Morrowind Economy Adjuster and Necessities of Morrowind. Those are a must in any replays of Morrowind. Makes the game ten times more difficult, but at least it's interesting.

I've never tried out these two before, but added them because they look fun: Pearls Enhanced(don't use Economy Adjuster Ingredients with this one) and Morrowind Crafting. I love the herbalism mod and usually use it every time, but I was too afraid that it would mess up crafting/pearls enhanced.

Thanks again for posting that site. It made it a lot easier this time around even though it still took FOREVER!!!:shakefist:
 
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DeepO said: Oblivion Mod Manager and BOSS are for Oblivion though .


OMGoodness!!!!! My senility has kicked in again!!!!!!!

I am writing a piece on Oblivion right now and had a brainfart. Thanks for the catch, DeepO.​
 
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xSamhainx said:
MW really was, to me, a game that ultimately gave back what I was willing to invest into it. Running around clicking past quest text will not cut it. I had to read the books, pay attention to dialogue instead of just clicking thru, check everything out in the game, getting into the politics, the religion, the culture itself as well as the physical world. I spent days of game time just exploring. I thought overall it was interesting, well written, and fun world to explore. That made any gameplay issues fade into obscurity for me. I played thru the game pretty much vanilla ( i tweaked some weak armor around a little becuase I liked the look) twice, and on my second run I was still uncovering lore, locations, NPCS, etc. I'm sorry, I cant look at a game that rich and think of it as anything but an RPG masterpiece.
Click to expand...

Well said, Sammy! :)
 
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JemyM said:
I spent weeks in Morrowind, but I cannot remember this at all. All I remember is "wikipedia", no dialogue, no cutscenes, and if there was a story in the game I missed it completely. I never finished the game despite the hours I spent. I remember Morrowind feeling like a painting, a beautiful scene with no interactions. I think the lack of dialogue really nailed the coffin for me. There were simply nothing in the came I could care for, no NPC's, no real people, just "signposts". I consider Oblivion a great improvement, but still not a good game.
Click to expand...

Ah, it seems you believe that RPGs should be a cinematic experience. That explains also why you find Oblivion better.

Okay, I get that the eccyclopedia dialogue isn't very visceral. But personally I would take that style over Oblivion "dialogue" anyday. There is this thing called immersion, and in a book the things the author describes helps you fill in the blanks for the things he doesn't describe. Combined it paints a mental picture.

Let's say if they used unique dialogue for every NPC, each NPC would probably have only 6 topics to talk about. If you'd give all NPC's a voice, the topics would probably reduced to 1 or 2. Sure, it would be a great experience to read unique dialogure or hear them talk, but NPCs only being able to utter two or six sentences could break immersion even more for me.

Personally I find it great that each NPC can tell me what I can do in town or what dangers are outside the town, give me advice, give tips for adventures, tell me a rumor.

As said, the delivery and execution of 'talking' with the NPCs isn't impressive, but the content of the 'conversations' feels more immersive because it isn't in some lineair loop dialog tree or some two sentence conversation. If a whole town knows there is an Inn in the village, wouldn't it make sense that all NPCs in the town would be able to tell you there is an Inn? (would be even greater if they could point to it like in Outcast). If it was a lineair dialogue tree-like game your adopted father would probably give you a quest to direct you to the Inn of your adoptive uncle in some city where it's never winter. In dialogue tree-like games the only time you would talk with an NPC is when you're directed to do so by another NPC.
 
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Just had to comment on your comments about the use of collor:

DArtagnan said:
I have no idea what people are talking about, when they claim it's not generic. I saw AT LEAST 60% of the world - and everything was incredibly bland or brown.
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Ah, you like Van Gogh's "Bedroom in Arles", but not Rembrandt's "The Night Watch". IMHO, just because something isn't colorfull doesn't mean it can't be beautiful.

The landscapes did have variety, but within a limited color palette for the most part.
Click to expand...
Van Gogh and Rembrandt.

Personally I like the contained variety so Morrowind didn't use the 'ol Videogame trope of containing the trifecta of desert, temperate and arctic landscapes. Sadly, they had to partially negate my point by releasing Bloodmoon.
 
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Ah, you like Van Gogh's "Bedroom in Arles", but not Rembrandt's "The Night Watch". IMHO, just because something isn't colorfull doesn't mean it can't be beautiful.
Click to expand...

Of course it can be beautiful, but such things are a matter of taste. FWIW, I think Morrowind is very pretty - but it's awfully bland as an experience. I couldn't "play" a painting, either.

But, it's key to understand that there's no right or wrong here. I'm simply explaining why I, personally, think the game was as I found it.

It's still interesting how people can react so differently to something that I would have thought was pretty universally agreed upon, as in what it takes to make a world come alive - or what makes something feel vibrant or diverse.

Color me wrong ;)

Personally I like the contained variety so Morrowind didn't use the 'ol Videogame trope of containing the trifecta of desert, temperate and arctic landscapes. Sadly, they had to partially negate my point by releasing Bloodmoon.
Click to expand...

Oh, it was an interesting premise - and a wonderfully realised environment. It just wasn't for me, just like the Fallout setting isn't for me. I can appreciate the faithfulness to an idea, but the idea has to appeal as well - and it just didn't.
 
JuliusMagnus said:
Ah, it seems you believe that RPGs should be a cinematic experience. That explains also why you find Oblivion better.
Click to expand...

No, I just aint an apologetic who struggle to make up excuses for lack of content and feedback to how you choose to play a game.

JuliusMagnus said:
But personally I would take that style over Oblivion "dialogue" anyday. There is this thing called immersion, and in a book the things the author describes helps you fill in the blanks for the things he doesn't describe. Combined it paints a mental picture.
Click to expand...

I rather have bad dialogue than no dialogue. If I want to read a book I read a book.

JuliusMagnus said:
Personally I find it great that each NPC can tell me what I can do in town or what dangers are outside the town, give me advice, give tips for adventures, tell me a rumor.
Click to expand...

Even games like Icewind Dale or Jagged Alliance 2 that was combat oriented, had enough NPC's to reveal this kind of information to you.
 
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lvl 4 and still trucking :)

Morrowind Graphics Extender is a god send!!!

That and Better Faces & Better Bods heh

Thanks again for the inspiration, I'm having a ball...sometimes a bit confusing, but a ball nonetheless :)
 
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pibbur said:
Making up excuses for lack of content. Do you claim that this is what we do, we who enjoyed the game and found it to be rich?
Click to expand...

As far as I concern, JuliusMagnus was apologetic in his reasoning when he begun rationalize the games shortcomings as a good thing. As comparison, I enjoyed Gothic 3 very much, but I do so without ever trying to ignore the games flaws or claim the flaws were a good thing.

I played Morrowind for weeks and finished every quest/sidecontent in Oblivion, but you might know by now that my time spent in a game doesn't mean I enjoy it. To me, playing some games is as much of a study or research as it is entertainment. Thus I spent 52 hours with Far Cry 2 and recently finished Gothic 3: Forsaken Gods.

Morrowind, Oblivion, Forsaken Gods, Far Cry 2 and Star Wars Galaxies have made me understand that large space doesn't equal large on content. If you create a randomized, computer generated world, you will quickly begin to see the same over and over again, regardless how large you make the map. This make a game feel hollow, empty, lifeless.

Games like Gothic 3, Fallout 2 and Arcanum weren't only large, each place were handcrafted with it's own distinct story that could be resolved the way the player wanted.

Now Oblivion is a bit different, since it actually had the same design; area-specific content. However, if you simply take the quest journal and compare them between Oblivion, Gothic 3, Fallout 2 and Arcanum, you will see that Oblivions quest journal is paper thin. Including all faction-quests in the game (you can join and complete all four and it will not change the world a bit) you end up with only a fraction of the amount of quests the other games had.

Then there's the thing about people. Why do I remember specific details about Minsc 12 years later, but cannot remember a single NPC from Oblivion and Morrowind except Picard and the orc who couldn't speak? Probably because because of how well designed and unique the characters in the Black Isle games were, and also that you actually spend a lot of time with them during the story. You grow to like or hate the characters and if you dedicate time to it you can unlock their own unique tale. A companion story in those games were often deeper and more memorable than what other games have as their main story. I am not much of a social person, but people intrigue me. Even when controlled by an AI, I think people are important to give value to what I do and make me feel like I am playing in a living world. What Oblivion and Morrowind had in common was a severe lack of memorable NPC's and companions.

And I do remember, and care, for Gorn, Diego, Lester and Milten.

Even after spending some time thinking, I remember glimpses of a few more people in Oblivion, but I simply can't remember a single NPC in Morrowind beyond the merchant with 5000 gold and the guard in the tutorial.
 
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I'm one of those who couldn't stand morrowind first time around. See I played gothic 1 prior Morrowind. So I was foolishly expecting same level of interactivity. Sadly vanilla mw felt quite static compared to awesome Gothic 1. So this first image pushed me away.

However after time went by, I began to think that maybe i never gave it a fair chance. Maybe I should have tried downloading some of those mods too. So I entered Morrowind once again. I downloaded couple of mods. I wanted to improve graphics, gameplay and fix some of the annoyances and glitches. Also I download 2 or 3 mods that improved the npc behaviour, added more life to town and more trafic to the empty wilderness and so forth.

To put long story short, the epicness and richness of morrowind captured my soul.
I loved how magically every aspect came together. The exploring is the key word. Morrowind culture, history, nature and tradition are just so darn unique. The gameworld is very coherent. It may not be the most interactive gameworld, but it is certainly one of the most detailed ones I've experienced. And there are dozens of mods that can improve the wooden npcs for example.

And there are so many quests. Mainquest and faction related questlines are in fact quite intresting. Playing morrowind is like reading an interactive novel. If you don't bother to read those in game books, storyline can leave you somewhat unsatisfied.

Regarding the article..While the directions to specific places are quite vague and thus at some point you begin to question your own sanity, at the end of day I wouldn't like to modernize it. The whole automap feauture in oblvion for example really watered down the exploration aspect entirely. I have had so much fun straying from the known path. For instance while I was trying to find some legion quest related dwemer ruin, I accidently stepped into vampire clan lair. :)

edit: Morrowind is not the best games I've played, but its not the worst either. Morrowind has odd charm that allows me to overlook it's flaws. Naturally I'm playing heavily modded morrowind. Vanilla game is a whole different matter.
 
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If there is anyone out there who has Nvidia's 3d glasses I HIGHLY recommend you try them out with Morrowind. I did yesterday and it was the most incredible 3d experience I've had to date. No other game I've played with these glasses has come close to being this good.

First, load all your favorite mods that enhance the graphics and then play the game. The world will literally pop out at you. I went up to a table and it felt like I could reach out my hand and pick up the jug on it. This game is even better than some 3D movies I've seen. It's as close to virtual reality I've ever come across. That includes Fallout 3 which was pretty awesome, but it never had the screen pop out at me like it did for Morrowind.

On the normal depth setting the world was amazing, but then I pumped it up the max (normally this causes all kinds of weird problems) and the world came alive. On max you can't get too close to anything or you'll get double vision, but traveling around outside was amazing. I spent an hour just walking around this world. I was not even playing the game. I just walked around admiring the scenery.

I know there aren't too many people who do have the glasses, but if you do try it out. I promise you you'll be amazed at how real the world feels.
 
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It's a bit pricey, but well worth the investment if you want a new experience. Not all games perform that well with the glasses, but enough of them do that it made it well worth the money.

I did quite a bit of research before buying this and if I can give you a word of advice stay away from the cheaper Acer GD245HQ monitor. From all the reviews I read it is worth the extra hundred dollars to invest in the Samsung Syncmaster 2233RZ monitor. The 3d is great and the 2d quality is better on the syncmaster than it is on the Acer product.

They have a bundle set that is a little cheaper to buy than getting each product individually. They offer the bundle set for either the Samsung or Acer monitor.

Take my advice with a grain of salt. I'm by far no expert in technical matters. I've just read a lot of different reviews and came to the conclusion that if I'm going to spend that much money on something then one more hundred dollars won't matter much in the end. I can tell you from experience that the Samsung monitor works wonderfully in both 3d and 2d gaming.
 
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JDR13 said:
I've never seen one person try so hard to convince everyone else that their opinion must be wrong. :)
Click to expand...

I agree, kind of, that's why I'm not following this discussion anymore. ;)

Edit : Just wanted to add that forum member Sorcha Ravenlock has a few Mods for Morrowind as well - I have installed her two shops, and manually translated (I hope) everything of them into my own language.

But I don't really know how to extract this translation again to make it available for others.

And then I ran into some kind of Mod issue which I haven't solved yet.
 
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Where do I find the "Improved Signs" mod listed in the article?

I've Googled, searched TES sites, no luck. Anyone know where to find it?
- Improved Signs (dxm_metallic_signs)
 
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JemyM said:
As far as I concern, JuliusMagnus was apologetic in his reasoning when he begun rationalize the games shortcomings as a good thing. As comparison, I enjoyed Gothic 3 very much, but I do so without ever trying to ignore the games flaws or claim the flaws were a good thing.

I played Morrowind for weeks and finished every quest/sidecontent in Oblivion, but you might know by now that my time spent in a game doesn't mean I enjoy it. To me, playing some games is as much of a study or research as it is entertainment. Thus I spent 52 hours with Far Cry 2 and recently finished Gothic 3: Forsaken Gods.

Morrowind, Oblivion, Forsaken Gods, Far Cry 2 and Star Wars Galaxies have made me understand that large space doesn't equal large on content. If you create a randomized, computer generated world, you will quickly begin to see the same over and over again, regardless how large you make the map. This make a game feel hollow, empty, lifeless.

Games like Gothic 3, Fallout 2 and Arcanum weren't only large, each place were handcrafted with it's own distinct story that could be resolved the way the player wanted.

Now Oblivion is a bit different, since it actually had the same design; area-specific content. However, if you simply take the quest journal and compare them between Oblivion, Gothic 3, Fallout 2 and Arcanum, you will see that Oblivions quest journal is paper thin. Including all faction-quests in the game (you can join and complete all four and it will not change the world a bit) you end up with only a fraction of the amount of quests the other games had.

Then there's the thing about people. Why do I remember specific details about Minsc 12 years later, but cannot remember a single NPC from Oblivion and Morrowind except Picard and the orc who couldn't speak? Probably because because of how well designed and unique the characters in the Black Isle games were, and also that you actually spend a lot of time with them during the story. You grow to like or hate the characters and if you dedicate time to it you can unlock their own unique tale. A companion story in those games were often deeper and more memorable than what other games have as their main story. I am not much of a social person, but people intrigue me. Even when controlled by an AI, I think people are important to give value to what I do and make me feel like I am playing in a living world. What Oblivion and Morrowind had in common was a severe lack of memorable NPC's and companions.

And I do remember, and care, for Gorn, Diego, Lester and Milten.

Even after spending some time thinking, I remember glimpses of a few more people in Oblivion, but I simply can't remember a single NPC in Morrowind beyond the merchant with 5000 gold and the guard in the tutorial.
Click to expand...

I can not remember one building, landscape or cultural feature from the Gothics or Risen that feels unique. I wouldn't really care if the islands and landmass from the game sunk and were never heard from again.

But with Morrowinds depiction of a whole culture, I really came to appreciate the Dunmer and their various Cultures and Religions. So I'm sad that in the lore of the next Elder Scrolls the whole Morrowind Province is flooded.

I guess the importance of the games is seen even in how the sequels are made. Gothic relies on the same main character with alot of the same supporting characters expanding the landmass each time. Taking place several months after the previous game.

TES uses a new main character, a new locale, several decades later. Even if they went back to the same province, most characters from the first game would be retired or dead. The only thing that remains is the lore build-up in the previous game which adds to the backstory of the new game.

I bet I can make a pretty acurate mental map of Vvardefell, but I'd be hard pressed to do it with the island from Gothic. I'm not saying no-one could, but the Gothic island didn't impress me in such a way that my brain found it worthwile to remember. See, I even don't remember the name, but I bet you would.

Gnisis probably doesn't mean anything to you but it is a town in my favorite part of the West Gash with all it's twisting and turning paths and rock arches.
 
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