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DArtagnan
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They may have delivered, but did they have to agree to make a kiddie Gothic, crapping all over the fans?
JoWooD - Heavy Losses
- Thread starter Gorath
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They may have delivered, but did they have to agree to make a kiddie Gothic, crapping all over the fans?
I wouldn't call it a "kiddie Gothic".
I'd rather call it a "market-consistent Gothic", or even stronger a "[mass] market-appealing Gothic".
I'd rather call it a "market-consistent Gothic", or even stronger a "[mass] market-appealing Gothic".
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Mmmmh, let's see. They haven't had a hit since Desperados. If they agree they get a 3.5M€ contract which pays the bills for 3 years. If they don't agree they don't get the contract.
Tough choice.
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Are you joking? You might try Google. Because if you don't know what's going on then honestly you really are either too new or don't care about the RPG game development, only one of those can be true. Actually there is a third choice, it involves a plant, spy or spook, not sure of the word that would best translate universally.
Then if you want more maybe do a search to find out how to take something that belongs to someone else, through legal trickery and ILL FAITH. This may come as a complete shock to you if you are new, but there are people in the world who take things, things that don't belong to them, for selfish and greedy reasons.
DArtagnan someone was going to be hired by the evil publisher, Spellbound applied as anyone would for a job.
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DArtagnan
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Mmmmh, let's see. They haven't had a hit since Desperados. If they agree they get a 3.5M€ contract which pays the bills for 3 years. If they don't agree they don't get the contract.
Tough choice.
So you're saying you know with absolute certainty that this was their only choice, and that they couldn't have made a different game?
In my world, you have a choice about what job opportunity to pursue - in most cases…
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Who cares? He who pays the piper calls the tune.
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Dwagginz
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Was there any need to be so rude about it? I'm not versed in the history of most companies, so yes, one could say I'm rather "new". The only seemingly relevant result I found was one about Gothic, and it's a comment on a newspage for a Gothic 3 expansion saying JoWooD "stole" the Gothic IP.Are you joking? You might try Google. Because if you don't know what's going on then honestly you really are either too new or don't care about the RPG game development, only one of those can be true. Actually there is a third choice, it involves a plant, spy or spook, not sure of the word that would best translate universally.
No, he did not. He said that they were offered a job and they took it. It might have been the only one going, it might not have been. I doubt any of us outside of Spellbound or any other involved party will know for sure.
Dwagginz
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Using the ultra-reliable Wiki, it says JoWooD own some of the rights, but the details are confidential.PB still owns the Gothic brand, according to the Arcania homepage. So "stole" is probably not exactly correct.
I understand, there is a good chance you don't work in the Game Development industry, if you did you might notice there are not a lot of choices. Your lucky actually you have choices and can afford to make morally correct choices without depriving you and your family of food clothing and shelter, so be thankful.
Really? I felt like I was responding in kind, in the sense you brought up *sounding like slander* to me. I didn't realize there was a need to be specific, nor do/did I have time to go into great detail. Since you seem serious and possibly concerned, I can briefly give some of what I recall.
Yes this is about Gothic 3 and the publishers behavior towards a great RPG maker and franchise IP. The publisher instead of paying PB for honest labor they performed in patching Gothic 3. Iirc, they had 1 gig patch done fairly quickly considering the masterpiece their were trying to create with huge world and just MASSIVE choices with consequences. Instead of paying PB the money, they hired an outside company who had never worked on the game, used the money to pay them to make, guess what? A one gig patch (ok not exactly), any idea how much longer the game owners had to wait, how sales were effected, reputations damaged? They also took legal maneuvers to make an expansion (as you rightly mentioned) and sequel (4th game) in the universe, without the franchise owner/creators. This was all becasue they didn't want to pay PB money they earned by making the patch.
They did all this and MORE harm, they took characters with the expansion and damaged the product, with stories and backgrounds PB did NOT intend. If you want to bring up slander and you care about the RPG gaming future, you should consider using that word to describe what the publisher did to the franchise. Just a suggestion.
These creators/developers/owners PB had published a successful independent game Gothic with another publisher before moving to this publisher, it was an established franchise. They are one of the few independents left, since the publisher was withholding money, taking rights to demean the lore and credibility of the franchise, PB sought quite easily (since they are so talented) a new publisher to make a new game. Risen did quite well (iirc) as an new franchise, though many main stream gamers don't play 40 hour long games but the RPG community was quite happy, especially considering it was made from scratch.
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You have rocky roads during the G1-G3 years. Then you separate out Jowood from PB. Next you have PB deliver a polished, stable, relativly bug-free game. Finally, you have Jowood release a "G4" demo resuling in mixed impressions about how good the game is, leaning a bit toward the not-so-good side plus a terrible financial outlook.
I don't think you need to know the behind the scenes details to deduce that Jowood was the primary trouble behind the problems with G1 through G3 (with emphasis on G3).
I don't think you need to know the behind the scenes details to deduce that Jowood was the primary trouble behind the problems with G1 through G3 (with emphasis on G3).
Your right, I'm posting generalized infos and as usual posting half asleep or half awake, I can never tell, which!PB still owns the Gothic brand, according to the Arcania homepage. So "stole" is probably not exactly correct.
Pretty sure the rights the publisher owns are the ones they exercised expansion and sequel. As I mentioned in the previous post PB and the Gothic franchise they created existed before they ever worked with this publisher.
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DArtagnan
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I understand, there is a good chance you don't work in the Game Development industry, if you did you might notice there are not a lot of choices. Your lucky actually you have choices and can afford to make morally correct choices without depriving you and your family of food clothing and shelter, so be thankful.
Morally correct choices? What are you on about?
We're talking about games here, and we're talking about whether Spellbound had no choice.
We don't know, obviously - and I asked because Gorath sometimes has inside info.
Your sad tale of not being able to put food on the table, unless you develop crappy games won't go down with me, so find another to spin that drivel on. That is, unless you have proof of their motivations.
Dwagginz
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I see. Thanks for the posts, gentlemen (Gentlewomen?).
Acleacius; Apologies for the taking your previous post as potentially offensive. It was likely a case of internet misunderstandings.
So they didn't steal the franchise, rather cripple it and use underhanded tactics to acquire a part of it (Enough to milk it as they see fit)?
Acleacius; Apologies for the taking your previous post as potentially offensive. It was likely a case of internet misunderstandings.
So they didn't steal the franchise, rather cripple it and use underhanded tactics to acquire a part of it (Enough to milk it as they see fit)?
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Sure, believe Wikipedia or filter the old newsbits out of our DB.
A detailed breakdown of the rights, as they were revealed by the print mags, can be found in the old newsbits, including analysis.
This was before the agreement between JoWooD and PB though, so the situation may have changed.
No, I don't have inside info on this.
Why proof? It's common sense. If you hire somebody to do a job, he will deliver the result you demand (-> contract) or he won't get paid in full. That's why it's called contract work.
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Dwagginz
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Whoops, forgot about that!Sure, believe Wikipedia or filter the old newsbits out of our DB.