Skyrim Skyrim - Paid Mod Status Update(Re-Opened)

Real-time update - I was just contacted by Valve's lawyer. He stated that they will not remove the content unless "legally compelled to do so", and that they will make the file visible only to currently paid users. I am beside myself with anger right now as they try to tell me what I can do with my own content. The copyright situation with Art of the Catch is shades of grey, but in Arissa 2.0's case, it's black and white; that's 100% mine and Griefmyst's work, and I should be able to dictate its distribution if I so choose. Unbelievable.

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I've not seen this Chesko quote myself (you got a source?) but if it's as it appears isn't this just the biggest red flag against putting your work on steam to date??

Found it...

http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/

Totally FUBAR.


-kaos

kaos_war_monk said:

I've not seen this Chesko quote myself (you got a source?) but if it's as it appears isn't this just the biggest red flag against putting your work on steam to date??

Found it…

Totally FUBAR.


-kaos

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Isn't it often the case that, when some bright spark comes up with an idea for a moneymaking scheme without the knowledge of the intricacies of the whole process, mayhem follows?

Actually re-reading it, seems it might mean will stay available to people who've paid for it. Ok despite the content creator's wishes I suppose people have forked out for it. Still so when there's an infringement on someone elses content or some such and a mod has to come down do the purchases lose access and get a refund? Is it automatically disabled for you and how's your save game after something important gets pulled. (spose I should read the fine print).

But yes that's what I was thinking when I first read about it yesterday. Clever suits with NFI or care for what underpins the whole community modding scene in games.

As I mentioned before my greater concern is that is this the harbinger of all mods being monetized for future titles in the gaming industry. Where the leaders go others will follow etc. Is the golden age of modding coming to an end, or is it just beginning?


-kaos

If something is worth my money, I'll pay - but I'm not likely to pay to be a mod tester, which is what playing most mods would be like.

So, I might be forced to give up customizing my TES experience, which means the games will be worse than they could be.

But we'll see.

Drithius said:

Well, if I were creating modder resource assets, I'd definitely consider putting aside modding as well. Then there's the matter of Valve's non-existent administrative support to handle piracy - seriously, with 75%, hire some people you greedy schmucks.

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Yeah, I read about that 75% on some forum. It was just a forum so I couldn't believe it was true. Really, 75%?

Drithius said:

Conspiracy theory time:

I have to say that, if they ever implement some sort of Steamworks "lock" on subsequent titles (Fallout 4), whereby the only mods allowed are Workshop-based, I won't be bothering with the game at all. Bethesda games are bad enough with mods, let alone being taxed afterthefact to make them more tolerable.

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Second that. Unfortunately this looks like a well-timed move to exploit gamers even more. Just a thought: Since modding is what makes Skyrim and similar games so successful, why don't the Big Two (Bio. and Valve) offer compensation (significant amount, not just a token) for the most downloaded mods? Sort of a grant to keep talented modders at their game, which in turn drives up sales and $$$ for both.

But hey, why not milk gamers even more instead, right? Not only 'The Evil Twins' charge over $100 for their (often broken and boring in the vanilla form) games, not only they invented the horrific DLC practice (I was less bitter about it until recently, when a game I like - which I won't mention - has been ruined by a continuous offering of new highly prices DLCs, over 37 at the moment...), now they want to make money from the work of fans... way to go.

Final thought: I hope GOG starts a serious competition with Galaxy, because Steam is really a few steps away to ruining gaming.

It's one thing to ask for some recompense for a service you provide.

It's another entirely to ask for recompense for services that someone else provides, then give them a tiny piece and call it fair. Those are mafia tactics. Someone's trying to get a bunch of yacht-riding investors some more money for doing nothing.

It's hard to get gamers to unite behind any single cause, but hopefully the outrage behind this is universal, and hopefully it spells Bethesda's doom.

Any company that thinks this up deserves to go bankrupt.

Aubrielle said:

It's one thing to ask for some recompense for a service you provide.

It's another entirely to ask for recompense for services that someone else provides, then give them a tiny piece and call it fair. Those are mafia tactics. Someone's trying to get a bunch of yacht-riding investors some more money for doing nothing.

It's hard to get gamers to unite behind any single cause, but hopefully the outrage behind this is universal, and hopefully it spells Bethesda's doom.

Any company that thinks this up deserves to go bankrupt.

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I agree with this. People say that developer make the game and the modding tool so they should also get a cut from the mod sale. This isn't always the case in the software industry. We use Visual Studio to develop apps but we don't pay Microsoft a cut each time we sell our software.

Also it isn't like Bethesda is not benefiting from all the free Mod out there, I mean if someone is using mod means they have bought copy of the game. Skyrim still topping best seller charts and its not like that due to Bethesda recent work supporting the game!

lostforever said:

I agree with this. People say that developer make the game and the modding tool so they should also get a cut from the mod sale. This isn't always the case in the software industry. We use Visual Studio to develop apps but we don't pay Microsoft a cut each time we sell our software.

Also it isn't like Bethesda is not benefiting from all the free Mod out there, I mean if someone is using mod means they have bought copy of the game. Skyrim still topping best seller charts and its not like that due to Bethesda recent work supporting the game!

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Totally agree. Bethesda wouldn't be raking in so much money if their games didn't have the mods they did. People think mod support is the devs doing gamers a favor when it most often works to the developers monetary advantage. It's not uncommon for those who play their games on console to buy another copy on PC just because of some mod they saw/read/heard about. If you're a regular visitor on the modding forums, it's something you're likely to see regularly. In fact, I wish we could see projections of Bethesda game sales with and without mod support.

lostforever said:

Also it isn't like Bethesda is not benefiting from all the free Mod out there, I mean if someone is using mod means they have bought copy of the game. Skyrim still topping best seller charts and its not like that due to Bethesda recent work supporting the game!

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Especially considering what so many others have pointed out - that Bethesda tends to release partially-finished games anyway, leaving modders to create massive "unofficial patches", fixing all the game's issues, even making mods that Bethesda capitalizes on. Hearthfire wasn't a thing until someone made a "build your own house" mod...>.>

jhwisner said:

That's one of the big troubles with trying to roll this out with fully developed pool of exiting mods out there. A lot of collaboration, sharing, and cross-pollination between existing projects turns monetization rights of some of the best mods into a clusterfucks. I

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That is one of the biggest issues that I have with paid mods. What is to prevent someone from slapping a new coat of paint on an existing mod and selling it as their own work? Or even just outright putting it up for sale?

Also, many mods rely on other mods to work properly, such as Skyrim Script Extender. If they had said that it could only be used for free mods then it would have nixed many of the paid mods, but they want it to remain open for all mods. I can respect that position, but again that just facilitates someone getting paid building on the works of others.

http://skse.silverlock.org/

Official Position on Paid Skyrim Mods (24 April 2015)

1 SKSE (and all of our other Script Extenders) will remain FREE to use for everyone. We will not charge anyone for it. Ever.
2 Creators of mods which depend upon SKSE must make their own choices regarding whether to ask for payment for their mods.
3 We will not receive any partial payment from those sales.

Reasons for #2 and #3: See #1.

This is an important point for us. We built the Script Extenders to allow modders to do things that couldn't otherwise be done. We want more mods to do more cool things. We want individuals and groups to be able to build on our functionality. Folks are free to use SKSE to build their mods. What they do with those mods and how they distribute them is up to them. The mod creators will need to deal with the fallout (good and/or bad) from those decisions.

MOST gamers? Excuse me? Did you do a poll, Couch? Just because some people are crying doesn't mean most people are crying.

The system ran into some messes right off the bat. So what? Steam itself started that way. Remember all the massive griping when Half Life 2 came out and required Steam? The rage storm went on for months. I wonder how many of those people that were raging have 200+ games in their Steam library now?

Splitting the profits isn't going to be easy. Getting only 25% may sound bad but, for most of the mods I've seen, it sounds about right. These people aren't making a game, they are tweaking small parts of the game. It's not so good for total conversion mods but those total conversions are still building on the same game engine so it's not like giving them 75% makes any sense, either. It's also not so good for tiny mods that only take a few hours to whip together but trying to ask for money for those mods means competing against free mods that do the same thing - good luck with that.

But it's new and not totally free for us and thus is deemed WRONG WRONG WRONG by a lot of people. Never mind the possible benefits of actually paying people for their work as opposed to just living with what people are willing to do out of the goodness of their hearts.

I <3 you, Zloth.

But be easy on Couch and them. It's a new thing and people naturally fear change. I personally think a lot of good will come from it, and I'm glad some modders will get some coin for their work.

You have been assimilated Zloth...

Takes a certain mindset to come to the defense of a 75% paycut. Spend hundreds of hours photographing, photoshopping, Blendering... get 25%. Right.

Donations are good, corporate greed is not.

25% is 25% more than they were getting before. And I'm sure people who want to donate to them won't stop now.

Like I said, a certain mindset. One not worth conversing with.

Drithius said:

Takes a certain mindset to come to the defense of a 75% paycut. Spend hundreds of hours photographing, photoshopping, Blendering… get 25%. Right.

Donations are good, corporate greed is not.

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You are right but it's not even that Drithius. Modding was with us for a while now and it worked perfectly! Now a couple of companies decided that they will squeeze a profit out of it. How can a gamer defend such a position?

Nothing good will come out of this....that's just blowing sunshine up my ass.

I have 250ish mods on my skyrim...now say they even charged a dollar for each, that's 250 dollars to do what I did....and that's not even taking away the mods that disappointed.

This will definitely change the way people play the game....not to mention many aren't taking into consideration that some mods break other mods so you can buy one that is totally incompatible. Really hate this decision.

I really can't believe the doom and gloom I'm seeing. I expect it from Drithius but not from the rest of you.

Think about the modders who will actually get to make some money off their time and effort. Think about how many new modders this will bring to the modding scene in hopes of making some money with a great new mod. This will give people incentive to put a lot of time and effort into their work, thus making for better mods in the long run. People can actually make money off their work now, and you guys are clamoring like it's the end of the world as we know it.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I think to maintain my sanity I'll take a break from this thread for awhile.