RPGWatch - Game of the Year 2013: Most Promising RPG in 2014

Dear DragonAge2 defender,

I didn't enjoy the loot system, it was an RPG travesty. It gave you junk items that served no purpose, it might as well have dropped gold instead. You weren't even given the right to decide what you felt was junk. On top of that, it provided set items but didn't ever allow you to complete them until a change of 'gear level' made them immediately redundant. Overall the gear felt lifeless, uninspiring and never made you lust after minor improvements nor challenge you to use your gear to make relevant gear choices.

I didn't enjoy the combat system, it was an RPG travesty. It spewed out something called 'waved attacks' which rendered any concept of battlefield strategy a complete joke. Enemies would just 'spawn' from utterly random and illogical locations, left, right, up and down and you had about as much battle management as you would if you left all the characters, including your own, on automatic. It as equally unenjoyable whether you were fighting a tough monster or an easy one.

I didn't enjoy the monster variation, it was an RPG travesty. There were humans who all looked the same, there were didlo shaped demons, there were some spiders and a dragon. Oh yes, and some dark spawn (the new orcs). Honestly, once you've killed a screen of them once or twice, that's it, all excitement about "oh, what's this?" is gone, for the rest of the entire game.

I didn't enjoy the story, I personally thought it was an RPG travesty. While it was lengthy and twisty, I did not find it either deep or engaging, I found it to be predictable, convoluted, frustrating. "I bet this is a trap" then "oh what a surprise, it's a trap" and "I have to choose one or the other?" but "oh, what a surprise, they both lead to some convoluted non-victory". If my character really did have half a brain he'd have got out the city and found himself a bunch of 'adventurers' to tag along with for some kind of 'personal or world-saving' type mission. Arguing about faction politics in a single-city setting is 'boring' and not 'fantasy' RPG.

I didn't enjoy my companions, I personally found them to be an RPG travesty. I didn't like the dwarf character, you don't have dwarves using bows, it just looks 'stupid'. The two sex-aids looked neither attractive nor relateable, I can't even remember what they looked like (I played BG2 for about 10 hours and can still remember what many of them looked like). I couldn't emote, root or feel defencive for any of them. If it wasn't for actually wanting to finish the game (just because I wanted to see just how bad it could get, pure curiosity) I would have chosen every single dialogue which permitted me to either dump them or kill them.

I didn't enjoy the setting, I personally found it to be an RPG travesty. The city was the most grayest, boring, depressing city I think I have ever seen. Even the insides of the houses all looked like they employed exactly the same interior designer. It was as if this 'ages-old' city had been built 10 years ago by one contractor with a short deadline and an instruction to 'keep it cheap'. The external settings were no better, just endless single-lane paths to ever more repeated scenery. The only good thing about being outside was the fact that you were no longer inside, but, once you'd got back inside, you'd be equally as glad you'd finally stopped being forced to look at the outside. Even the deep roads, supposedly melded into ancient dwarven ruins of majesty, were just larger versions of rabbit warrens, but with less life.

I have no bias against Bioware. I am simply struggling to know what the game is if I cannot enjoy either loot, combat, variety, story, companions or locations. I could see 'nothing' there. This game is no longer on my shelf and I will never replay it.

The one excellent thing about this game though, was that it put all the others into such a good light by comparison that at least any player of any other game can at least now say "well, it's not as bad as DA2" no matter how crappy. And that's the positive that can be taken from DA2

Tilean said:

It's exactly that, a lot of people seem to think they are "masterpieces". A masterpiece in my opinion, should hold appeal to a greater number of people than that of a fairly niche audience that is willing to forgive glaring flaws like one the worst combat systems of its genre and a completely redundant system of character development. Also, I don't see why writing of The Witcher should be considered better than that of Bioware titles.

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Then do you consider PS:T not a masterpiece? It doesn't have to be appeal to most of general public to be a masterpiece - rather I would call them streamlined craps these days.

In your book Bioware titles are better or considered masterpiece? That's your opinion and perfectly valid, and so are others opinion that The Witcher is masterpiece.

I for one don't see what's so great about The Witcher but I respect others opinion. Same goes with PS:T, I never really enjoyed the game, but I do see features that are worthwhile to deserve to be famed as one of the masterpiece.

BTW: As we consider XCOM to be an RPG here: I just received a newsletter from UFO Extraterrestrials 2 stating that they have a screenshot of their geointerface now:
http://www.ufo2extraterrestrials.com/screenshot/#

Game is also scheduled for 2014. Probably not going to win many rewards, but I am really looking forward to it as XCOM EU didn't do it for me.

Kordanor said:

Loved the dry humor and the voice. Maybe you played the female character?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JnLiaH_id8

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There was an option to play as a female character? Surely not? However, the clip you linked to is a good example of the awfulness of the dialogue. Mixing quasi-Shakespearean "ye old" language with modern style flippancy might be good for a few laughs, but I found it very tiresome.

Don't remember whether or not you could play female.
And I guess you mix something up.
The link I posted was an "easteregg". There was only one NPC in the whole game who used old english. And that was a reference to the first Two Worlds game which was completely in old english and earnt a lot of citicism for it.

JDR13 said:

Sorry bro, but now you're just talking out your ass. EA's corporate policies aren't much better? Um…no, they're far, far worse.

Grimdark shadiness? What does that even mean? Care to give examples?




Ah…right. So whether or not something can be considered a masterpiece now depends on how much of the mainstream it appeals to? Good luck with that.

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May I remind you of this?

http://torrentfreak.com/the-witcher...witch-hunt-with-bogus-accuracy-claims-111224/

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/01/12/splendid-cd-projekt-to-stop-legal-threats/

I thought it was pretty dishonest to claim to be the paragon of Internet discussions about DRM everywhere by stating that they do not believe in DRM being effective, then putting DRM on the retail versions of TW2 and enforcing borderline blackmail practices to go after profits they might have lost because of not using DRM on online versions.

Then there was this disaster with GOG being seemingly shut down as a prank to generate Internet buzz for the relaunch of the site. Which was a major issue in the community at the time with a lot of high profile members leaving. It was a huge dick move, there is no other way to call it; playing on the platforms most loyal customer's fears and emotions to generate buzz and therefore more profit is a very shady business tactic. Had this been done by any other publisher, they would have been torn to shreds by the press.

I haven't followed CDProjekt that closely in recent years but I am sure there are other issues. It's not horror-story bad, but shady enough for me.

purpleblob said:

Then do you consider PS:T not a masterpiece? It doesn't have to be appeal to most of general public to be a masterpiece - rather I would call them streamlined craps these days.

In your book Bioware titles are better or considered masterpiece? That's your opinion and perfectly valid, and so are others opinion that The Witcher is masterpiece.

I for one don't see what's so great about The Witcher but I respect others opinion. Same goes with PS:T, I never really enjoyed the game, but I do see features that are worthwhile to deserve to be famed as one of the masterpiece.

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Then, do you see features in The Witcher that make you consider it worthwhile for being called a masterpiece, even if you yourself don't enjoy it that much? That is basically my problem, I just don't see it and I haven't seen a convincing argument yet.

With PS:T on the other hand I feel very strongly, that a person outside of gaming can enjoy it just as much as an avid RPG gamer, because it deals with problems close to the human core in an engaging way, with questions about fate and purpose, allegoric reflections about the interplay between suffering and emotional bonding. It shows first-hand the difficulty of taking on responsibility for past actions that seem disconnected from the self of now, as it happens in a long life or, in the Nameless One's case, because of previous incarnations. Ultimately it achieves transcending the specific realities of a fairly whacky fantasy scenario to tackle very basic, very personal themes, something that I feel The Witcher does not.

For the record, most Bioware games don't do this for me either, but they are closer to achieving this by focusing on the companions' narratives more and are therefore better equipped to deal with themes of close human relationships. Which I feel are more interesting.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this is a thread about finding out the general consensus, or at least the results of finding out the consensus. So I just wanted to point out what I perceive as a bias, in case DA:I turns out to be enjoyed by more people than TW3, in which case I will have tangible proof of owning a working crystal ball.

Tilean said:

May I remind you of this?

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*Gasp* How dare they take steps to try to prevent people from stealing from them! Cruel bastards!!

Btw, Did you even bother to actually read the RPS article? I'm guessing the answer is no, because it certainly doesn't do much to support your opinion.

Tilean said:

in case DA:I turns out to be enjoyed by more people than TW3, in which case I will have tangible proof of owning a working crystal ball.

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I already have a crystal ball, and it tells me that DA:I will be enjoyed more by those who prefer party-based RPGs with hours of inane banter and same-sex romancing, while TW3 will be enjoyed more by those who like open-world action-RPGs.

Sorry, It just seems like you saying there is a bias because YOU can't understand why people would prefer the witcher over bioware.

Why does there have to be a bias for this to happen? Couldn't they just simply think the witcher is better? You don't need to understand why they do for there not to be a bias.

Where was this supposed bias when most here were singing the praises of DAO?

Anyway for me, the ME series was just boring, never got into it and only played about 10 hrs. of the first 1. Not really a fair shake so I won't include it.

DAO was better than the witcher 1 and 2 but all 3 of those are far superior to the garbage that was DA2. Your a supporter of DA2 and you yourself called it a cash in, you can't really be that surprised that most received it negatively.

As far as DAI being better than TW3 I'm not sure why you feel that would validate your position but ok.

If it is better I'd have no problem stating it as I assume most others here wouldn't either.

The thing is though if people don't think is better I have a feeling you'll blame it on some mysterious bias rather than maybe the games just not better.

Let's just wait and see how things turn out.
Determining which one is "better" is a hard thing to do anyways because DA:I is a party pased RPG with pausable realtime combat and fixed zones (afaik) while witcher is an open world single character action RPG…
Combat alone is a factor which can make either of both games a no-go for some players.

Now if any of these games really suck (like the general opinion about DA2 is / MetaCritic user score of 4.3) that's a whole different point but we can't say as of now.

Tilean said:

Then, do you see features in The Witcher that make you consider it worthwhile for being called a masterpiece, even if you yourself don't enjoy it that much? That is basically my problem, I just don't see it and I haven't seen a convincing argument yet.

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Can't answer that because I couldn't get past tutorial for The Witcher... but your own enjoyment vs quality of the game can be two very different thing. Let's use Torment for an example. I disliked the game a lot. I explained this in other posts, but I couldn't really relate myself to TNO. Torment is quite a personal story (IMO) and if you can't relate to main character, then a lot of them don't make sense (or you don't care even). I didn't like the game, but I can see that it has lots of good features that makes it the masterpiece.

Also, I'm really having difficult time having faith in Bioware products of recently... And let me tell you this: I was Bioware fan, through and through. All my favourite games are made by Bioware (BG2, ME1 and 2). But what they did to ME3 and DA2.... it's not former Bioware anymore. So, no, I don't have much faith in DA:I, although I do wish I am wrong.

Not going to post any more replies here. There is a constant theme of selective response, avoiding key issues, and intentional misreading, which is quite simply not worth my time. Although it is now obvious enough for critical readers to see that there might be some truth to my opinion.

Tilean said:

Not going to post any more replies here. There is a constant theme of selective response, avoiding key issues, and intentional misreading, which is quite simply not worth my time. Although it is now obvious enough for critical readers to see that there might be some truth to my opinion.

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Yes, it must be a forum-wide conspiracy against you.

Tilean said:

Bioware games... focusing on the companions' narratives more and are therefore better equipped to deal with themes of close human relationships. Which I feel are more interesting.

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It sounds like you're just taking one very specific aspect of an RPG and making a judgement of quality over that one specific element.

While we all do this to a certain extent, I can't help but feel that the 'close human relationships' aspect of a game is not really an RPG defining trait.

Wouldn't it be fairer to say that an RPG that focuses on close human relationships is actually a game that wants to be something other than an RPG? I dunno, like some kind of chatting sim?

There's only so many basic human stereotypes you can re-trope before you turn 98% of the world's population into cliche...

... and that's forgetting that 75% of the world's population would probably drive you to drink if you had to stay in the same room as them for more than a few hours.

MinorityReport said:

… and that's forgetting that 75% of the world's population would probably drive you to drink if you had to stay in the same room as them for more than a few hours.

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Did I hear someone mentioned beer?
Who needs mostpromising games? Bring the bottle!

I found DAO not bad, but too dark for my taste. That's why I finally quit it.
And the one who had given me the CE, too. We both were huge Drakensang fans instead.