The war on terror is over officially \o/

magerette · June 13, 2009

Rithrandil said:
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh C'thulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl Ifhtagn!

Or something.

I think I heard Rush say that the other day. Unless it was Cheney...

Prime Junta · June 13, 2009

Rithrandil said:
I like that idea. Wait, Glenn Beck is blaming Obama? I'm not sure if I want to ask you for a link to that. I think it may snap the final strains of my sanity, like seeing Cthulhu rising out of R'lyeh or something.

Always pleased to be of service:

Glenn Beck said:
GLENN: Now, when Jeremiah Wright says "Them Jews ain't gonna let him talk to me, an ethnic cleansing is going on in Gaza, ethnic cleansing by the Zionist is a sin and a crime against humanity and they won't want Barack talking like that because they will say that he's anti Israel." What's the difference between the language of an anti Semite that is also nuts and goes, kills people, and the language of Jeremiah Wright?

MALKIN: Yeah. I'd like to hear from some of these people on the left how they explain that away. I'd like to hear from the White House for that matter how he explains that away. I'm certainly glad that President Obama spoke up about the need to be vigilant against anti Semitism yesterday, but where was he when he was sitting in the pews of this virulent anti Semite for almost 20 years and not saying a word about it? And it wasn't, of course, just Jeremiah Wright that spewed this Jew bashing rhetoric. It was pretty much every minister that Barack Obama surrounded himself with, from Michael Pfleger to Eric Lee to, you know, a number of these collared ministers who spoke from the pulpit the same way that James von Brunn did on his hate site.

GLENN: The difference is Jeremiah Wright hasn't gone out and killed anybody. James von Brunn has. Which makes both of them an anti Semite, only one of them a killer.

[ http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/26546/ ]

Rithrandil · June 13, 2009

I...but...what...

Glenn Beck said:
GLENN: Michelle, let me get your opinion on how I feel like we're living in 1932 again to where you know that there were people that knew in Germany. You know. And everyone was in denial. I mean, have you read Mein Kampf?

MALKIN: Not all the way through, and I should.

GLENN: Yeah. I've read it, and I read it because I wanted to know did the German people know. The answer is clear: Yes, they knew. They had to have known. And I never understood how they sat by, and I don't understand today, taking this out of a Jewish thing and just looking at it as the direction this country is headed right now, we are headed with what's happening with GM, with what's on the front page of the Wall Street Journal today, Fed e mails bash Bank of America chief in tussle over deal. You have the secretary of the treasury saying the magnitude of losses at Merrill Lynch is breathtaking. They are saying now, the Bank of America chief is saying that he fears lawsuits from shareholders. I don't think that's very likely and I said so but Merrill is really scary and ugly. They lied and pushed Merrill Lynch or pushed Bank of America into this Merrill Lynch deal. They are strong arming every step of the way these businesses. We are headed towards a kind of government that is absolutely unrecognizable in America and yet the American people sit by and are like, well, I guess; I don't know. You've got people who are doing tea parties, you have people who are speaking out, but you don't have the mass population saying, "Wait a minute, don't you see where we're headed?" What is it going to take, Michelle?

What the fuck? Is he REALLY comparing the United States to the fucking Weimar Republic? And did he just make an implicit comparison between Hitler and Obama?

Stupid Douchebag said:
GLENN: We are headed towards a McCarthy era. I really believe, I think that I really think that the silence from Washington and the White House is the loudest thing that I've ever heard, the silence of Barack Obama not saying don't tear these people apart. They have a right to do these things in the tea parties, et cetera, et cetera. George Bush was out talking about Cindy Sheehan, I'm wrong, she's wrong, but I support her ability to be able to do that, yada, yada. This is I really think that they are letting things spiral out of control and adding to it intentionally.

Maybe because Obama is busy, I don't know, running the freaking country? So if Obama doesn't respond to every protest of "OBAMA'S A MUSLIM ATHEIST COMMU NAZI TERRORIST LOVER!111" with a statement of "they have a right to protest" ... he's somehow some evil machiavellian overlord who *doesn't* believe they have this right? Oh no! It was beneath Obama's radar! He's gonna send in the Gestapo to shut us freedm lovers in the real America down!

I call her...Mini-Coulter said:
MALKIN: You know, that is a really good point about the silence of the White House on this. And if you compare George Bush just as you say, you know, this is a guy who bent over backwards in the weeks after September 11th to talk about how Islam was a religion of peace and invited all of the jihadi friendly and jihadi helper groups to the White House. He brought C.A.R.E. in, he brought the AADC in. Where is Barack Obama to extend an olive branch and to defend the free speech of the likes of you and me and to, you know, to give more than lip service to his so called post partisan stature? No, you don't see that at all, and this is very, very damning. And I think it shows you that he is nothing more than a political, a creature of political expedience. And if it doesn't completely shatter the myth of hope and change, I don't know what does.

DEFEND THE FREE SPEECH!? Ugh! What the fuck! No one is trying to shut them down! People are calling them idiots for what they are saying! Hey, guess what, you stupid fuckclowns, that's what free speech is! You put yourself out there and you become fair game for your opponents!

Are they seriously arguing this is 1932s Germany and HitlObama is going to throw them all in concentration camps because GM went into bankruptcy and he's not responding to their attacks or he's not "Extending an olive branch"(aka "agreeing with everything we want") with people who call him a nazi fascist communist godless terrorist supporting muslim?

So...very...angry...

Squeek · June 13, 2009

Rithrandil said:
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh C'thulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

magerette said:
I think I heard Rush say that the other day. Unless it was Cheney...

I think it was Rush talking with his mouth wrapped around a jelly doughnut, saying: "Hey, these taste better on painkillers!"

Rithrandil · June 13, 2009

Squeek said:
I think it was Rush talking with his mouth wrapped around a jelly doughnut, saying: "Hey, these taste better on painkillers!"

:lol: Mega dittos, Squeek! Mega dittos!

magerette · June 14, 2009

Malkin and Beck would be the two people in my little existential hell, if I were in that Sartre play--trapped in a waiting room with them for all eternity, listening to them....yes, Jean-Paul;

HELL IS JUST OTHER PEOPLE.

(Great suffering cats! I looked and the play posits four people-- that means Rush will be bringing the jelly doughnuts----and hopefully the painkillers as well..lots and lots of painkillers...)

Corwin · June 14, 2009

Ah, 'No Exit', brilliant conceptual play. I might not agree with him, but I certainly respect his genius.

dteowner · June 15, 2009

Rithrandil said:
What the fuck? Is he REALLY comparing the United States to the fucking Weimar Republic? And did he just make an implicit comparison between Hitler and Obama?

Ummm, there's no mention of Obama in that quote whatsoever. Making up stuff to put between the lines, are we? So you don't like him. OK. You don't have to magic up stuff that isn't there to fuel it.

Rithrandil said:
Maybe because Obama is busy, I don't know, running the freaking country? So if Obama doesn't respond to every protest of "OBAMA'S A MUSLIM ATHEIST COMMU NAZI TERRORIST LOVER!111" with a statement of "they have a right to protest" ... he's somehow some evil machiavellian overlord who *doesn't* believe they have this right? Oh no! It was beneath Obama's radar! He's gonna send in the Gestapo to shut us freedm lovers in the real America down!

Well, sure that's understandable. After all, when Dubya (Dumbass Dubya is the bar I'm using!?!) was reaching out to the Muslims, all he had going was 9-frickin-11. Open schedule there, eh?

Rithrandil · June 15, 2009

dteowner said:
Ummm, there's no mention of Obama in that quote whatsoever. Making up stuff to put between the lines, are we? So you don't like him. OK. You don't have to magic up stuff that isn't there to fuel it.

He goes on for paragraphs above it talking about how Obama sat in Wright's church - and wright is an anti-semite.

glenn beck show said:
MALKIN: Yeah. I'd like to hear from some of these people on the left how they explain that away. I'd like to hear from the White House for that matter how he explains that away. I'm certainly glad that President Obama spoke up about the need to be vigilant against anti Semitism yesterday, but where was he when he was sitting in the pews of this virulent anti Semite for almost 20 years and not saying a word about it? And it wasn't, of course, just Jeremiah Wright that spewed this Jew bashing rhetoric. It was pretty much every minister that Barack Obama surrounded himself with, from Michael Pfleger to Eric Lee to, you know, a number of these collared ministers who spoke from the pulpit the same way that James von Brunn did on his hate site.

GLENN: The difference is Jeremiah Wright hasn't gone out and killed anybody. James von Brunn has. Which makes both of them an anti Semite, only one of them a killer.

MALKIN: Right, you know, but of course we haven't killed anyone, either, but we're being indicted for it although we've never spewed this kind of anti Semitic rhetoric and I've always, always condemned it.

GLENN: Let me ask you this, Michelle. I contend that the people in the right, you know, in anyone who is a conservative and on the right traditionally speaking, probably a bigger fan of Israel than anyone on the left, a bigger defender of Israel, a bigger defender of the Jews. I mean, I have a lot of friends who have said to me, "What the hell is wrong with all of the Jewish people? Are they not seeing what's coming again? Are they not seeing it? How can they be in bed with people who are going down the road of anti Semitism?"

"MALKIN: Exactly. And that certainly was the internal debate during this last campaign among, you know, Republican Jews who stood by and watched as, you know, their brethren on the left championed somebody who sat in Jeremiah Wright's pews for 20 years."

How is that not implying or flat out saying Obama is an anti-semite? They're *certainly* not speaking of democratic jews supporting Wright when Beck says ""What the hell is wrong with all of the Jewish people? Are they not seeing what's coming again? Are they not seeing it? How can they be in bed with people who are going down the road of anti Semitism?"

So no, I do believe he's comparing Obama to Hitler. I don't like Glenn Beck because he's a vile xenophobic radical who should probably be pumped full of thorazine and valium and locked in a padded cell for his own safety.

dteowner said:
Well, sure that's understandable. After all, when Dubya (Dumbass Dubya is the bar I'm using!?!) was reaching out to the Muslims, all he had going was 9-frickin-11. Open schedule there, eh?

And Obama has Afghanistan, Iraq, the economic collapse, the DPRK, Iran, etc to deal with. I'm not supporting a double standard, I'm saying Bush doesn't need to go out there and say "Michael moore has a right to be a douche and publish factually inaccurate movies about me" because everyone already knows he has this right. Beck and Malkin are whining because Obama's not going out there and holding their hand reassuring them that they have a right *they already know they have*.

Corwin · June 15, 2009

Am I missing something?? Because a mouse is born in a cookie jar, it doesn't make him a cookie. Because a person sits in a church it doesn't make him a Christian and because someone's Pastor is a racist/anti-semite, it doesn't make him a racist/anti-semite either!!

Prime Junta · June 15, 2009

Corwin said:
Am I missing something?? Because a mouse is born in a cookie jar, it doesn't make him a cookie. Because a person sits in a church it doesn't make him a Christian and because someone's Pastor is a racist/anti-semite, it doesn't make him a racist/anti-semite either!!

I haven't followed the Rev. Wright all that closely, but I don't recall seeing anything from him that's actually racist, let alone anti-Semitic. Anti-Zionist, for sure, and anti-American too -- no doubt highly offensive to patriotic Americans -- but that's not the same thing. Those famous "God damn America" bits from his sermons are really no different *at all* than what you hear in (almost) entirely white lefty circles in my neck of the woods. Hell, if suitably provoked, I can come up with a rant more or less like that all by myself.

Prime Junta · June 15, 2009

dteowner said:
Ummm, there's no mention of Obama in that quote whatsoever. Making up stuff to put between the lines, are we? So you don't like him. OK. You don't have to magic up stuff that isn't there to fuel it.

You know, dte, that's a *really* common dodge in rightie discourse ever since the Southern Strategy. Your propagandists have spent forty years coming up with ways of saying things without actually saying them, and then when challenged, you open your eyes wide, throw up your hands, and claim you didn't actually say anything of the kind, perish the thought.

It works really well, too. To my knowledge, nobody high up in the Bush administration actually flat-out said that Saddam was working with bin Laden -- yet they got the great majority of Americans believing exactly that.

It's against the law -- not to mention incredibly offensive, even to most righties -- to say "kill the President." However, you can accomplish the same thing by explaining how America is like the Weimar Republic, how the Nazis are like Socialists, how the Democrats are Socialists, how dangerous a charismatic leader can be at times like these, and wouldn't it be great if somebody had whacked Hitler before he got into power? That, dte, is what these fine, upstanding citizens like Beck and Malkin and Coulter and Limbaugh and Hannity and Colmes and O'Reilly are doing.

dteowner · June 15, 2009

And it's a common lefty ploy to say, "Sure he didn't say anything of the sort, but we all know he really meant it." Can't really defend oneself against that scam, now can ya? Were I a little more motivated, it wouldn't be overly difficult to use the technique to magic some words in your mouth that would make you gag, eh?

Prime Junta · June 15, 2009

dteowner said:
And it's a common lefty ploy to say, "Sure he didn't say anything of the sort, but we all know he really meant it." Can't really defend oneself against that scam, now can ya? Were I a little more motivated, it wouldn't be overly difficult to use the technique to magic some words in your mouth that would make you gag, eh?

Thing is, dte, textual analysis isn't all that difficult. It's pretty easy to see if a phrase is taken out of context. It's equally easy to determine what a speaker's intent is, even if he's stating it obliquely.

There's nothing new about this type of game; people have been playing it every time there's some reason not to say something straight out -- Soviet literature has some beautiful examples of people saying incredibly subversive things without saying anything you could actually nail them down for:

"Radio Yerevan, is it true that the Americans have a nuclear bomb powerful enough to destroy our beautiful city of Yerevan, with all of its gardens and boulevards, monuments and streets, theaters and museums?"

"In principle, yes. But Moscow is a much more beautiful city."

Does the joke actually express a wish that Moscow gets nuked? Not at all, far from it, perish the thought! Yes. Yes it does, rather.

Propagandists play this game all the time. Your current crop of rightie ones is, actually, pretty transparent about it. Michael Moore is the only leftie one that I'm aware of that's currently playing that particular game in your neck o' the woods, and he's a fair bit subtler and more careful about it too.

Rithrandil · June 15, 2009

And there's the fact that they *flat out say* they can't understand why American jews would support Obama, then are amazed they can't "see what's coming" because of anti-semitism, then move into comparing the U.S. now to the Weimar Republic and mention Mein Kampf.

dteowner · June 15, 2009

I see them discussing Wright's clearly anti-semetic statements (you aren't disputing that, are you?). The magically created link between Wright and Obama (from both sides) is a bit flimsy, but that doesn't in any way invalidate the stated stance that Wright's statements should raise the ire of American jews.

@PJ: for all our wishful parsing, sometimes it's just a book about a whale. It's very easy to put words in someone's mouth and then shout down any attempts they make at "I never said that"--it's a minor variation on the emperor's new clothes.

Rithrandil · June 15, 2009

I'm not disagreeing with Wright being an anti-semite, but the key line for me is:
"MALKIN: Exactly. And that certainly was the internal debate during this last campaign among, you know, Republican Jews who stood by and watched as, you know, their brethren on the left championed somebody who sat in Jeremiah Wright's pews for 20 years."

Then launching into a discussion comparing us to the rise of Nazi Germany. I think it's pretty clear what they are talking about.

And I don't think it's much of a leap when you look at Beck's past issues - like with the Muslim congressman, etc.

Prime Junta · June 15, 2009

dteowner said:
I see them discussing Wright's clearly anti-semetic statements (you aren't disputing that, are you?). The magically created link between Wright and Obama (from both sides) is a bit flimsy, but that doesn't in any way invalidate the stated stance that Wright's statements should raise the ire of American jews.

Which ones? Again, I haven't followed what Rev. Wright has said all too closely, but while I've seen plenty of anti-Zionist statements from him, I haven't seen anything anti-Semitic. But again, it's quite likely I've just missed them.

@PJ: for all our wishful parsing, sometimes it's just a book about a whale.

Sometimes it is. But often it isn't. The trick is being able to tell which is which. With Herman Melville, it's not all that easy -- but with Beck, Limbaugh, Malkin, Coulter, Hannity, O'Reilly, and Moore, it *is* easy. That's one difference between art and propaganda, by the way.

It's very easy to put words in someone's mouth and then shout down any attempts they make at "I never said that"--it's a minor variation on the emperor's new clothes.

It is, but such attempts are as easy to debunk as it is to identify the oblique technique I'm referring to. If a quote is taken out of context, providing the missing context will do it.

dteowner · June 15, 2009

So then, you went frothing about Glenn Beck based on a statement by Malkin? Or because Beck didn't immediately throw Malkin off the set? Hell, if disagreeing with the guest was grounds for pulling the plug on the report, we'd never see a Republican on network news again.

Beck's no angel, but let's hang him for crimes HE actually committed.

Prime Junta · June 15, 2009

dteowner said:
So then, you went frothing about Glenn Beck based on a statement by Malkin? Or because Beck didn't immediately throw Malkin off the set? Hell, if disagreeing with the guest was grounds for pulling the plug on the report, we'd never see a Republican on network news again.

Beck's no angel, but let's hang him for crimes HE actually committed.

It was his show. The two were riffing off each other and agreeing enthusiastically with each other. It would have been more accurate to say "Beck and Malkin" rather than just "Beck," and I was careless not to do so. How big a difference do you think it makes, though?

Edit: Gack, sorry -- it's clear that you intended the comment for Rith, not me. Looks like I *was* right, and it was Beck who indirectly blamed Obama for the shooting by quoting Rev. Wright. That's the trouble with getting this kind of thing from transcripts -- when you're reading blocks of text, it's very hard to remember which one of the participants said what.

The war on terror is over officially \o/

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