Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Boss Fights Were Outsourced

And if you don't have the stun gun? The point isn't the difficulty, it's the change in rules.

I beat him without shooting at all. Well, without shooting HIM anyway. I was hiding behind the pillars trying to stay alive while working out how to use a missile launcher and he killed himself with his own grenades.

That seems to be a fluke, though. I re-tried it and he killed me like 10 times in a row before I got him.
 
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Oh right, no RPGs have boss fights. :rolleyes:
Someone from Eidos Montreal said in an interview that they didn't want to do the boss fights but were forced to add them in by the publisher. I guess since they didn't want to do them and they had to be there that they would give it to another studio to do. They probably would have purposely ruined them if their dislike for them was as much as it read.

Yep, I remember that interview. I take it they didn't want to do it, so the suits outsourced it. Stupid move from corporate leaders.
 
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And if you don't have the stun gun? The point isn't the difficulty, it's the change in rules.
I'm not sure which boss are you referring to, but if it's the first boss, there is a stun gun with ammo in the room with the boss (dunno exactly in which "crate" but try around center) and also there is one in the first area with hostiles (check areas prior to elevator and mech). And on SG's description says it "shocks everything temporarily" so it's kinda logical to (ab)use it since several EMP grenades can't do the same trick and not only that, grenades don't slow the boss at all. SG hurts him and slows him down with the shock which enables you to reload the next dart and shock him again.
I'm still on a way to meet the second boss, and have been keeping and cudling (hehe) that "pistol" and saving up it's ammo like it's a cure for cancer. Dunno if it'll work on second boss, but can't hurt to try, right? ;)

And I agree with everyone who says that boss fights seem too much outta place. Like it's not the same game we're playing.
Outsourcing looks like a strange decision, but then again, why not if you're pressed with deadlines or something?

In my opinion, this game is overrated and not really an RPG. This "boss fight" issue underlines this.
It's not overrated. It's a good game with a few flaws. It's just not GOTY which is too bad because it leaves us to see who wins in the clash Skyrim vs TheWitcher2. I really hoped for a race of three games for the title.
 
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The main RPG nature of the game is choosing to kill or not to kill. Then you run into a boss fight and are forced to kill.

Over rated in other aspects as well. The main character is really silly looking and has a terrible voice actor. The dialogs are have no impact on anything. If you want a stealth/action FPS with so-so production values, then fine. Enjoy.
 
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Yeah. This isn't a site about gardening. It's about discussing RPGs (and apparently, action/stealth shooters with a thin veneer of RPG). So I'm discussing RPGs. Or at least I'm talking about Deus Ex.

I gave my opinion in another thread weeks ago. Does this bother you?
 
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This game is not an RPG. Maybe the earlier versions of it were, but this is a first person shooter with small portions of dialog.

I am amused that this game is covered by an RPG website. I am posting these thoughts only to tell others who read them that this is NOT an RPG.

It's a FPS that gets covered at RPG Watch, and I want to make it perfectly clear to people who are intrigued but on the fence about buying it that it is not an RPG. Are we going to hear about Call of Duty 12 on this site now because there's a few lines of dialog and you can choose how you advance?

Again, I will state that Deus Ex is only a borderline RPG and really has no reason to be here except that it's french canadian and not evil Bioware.

I'm not "deciding for others." But I want to make it plain to others that this is not an RPG.

I can only chalk it up to the fact that it's made outside the USA. There's a weird fetish on this site for non US games and an equally weird animus towards anything made by american games companies.

Again, it's an OK game, but it's a first person shooter that has barely any RPG traits at all, and some pretty bad voice acting and face models and animations.

How about "It's barely an RPG"?

This game makes Mass Effect look like Baldur's Gate. If you wanna insist it's an RPG, then fine… We disagree.

It's an action game where you have some choice in the types of powers you upgrade. That makes it an RPG?

It's a relatively competent action game. Is there some reason why you can't just call it what it is? It's OK that you like a game that's an action game or a non-RPG. Why are people here getting defensive and insisting this is something it's not.

I've said it's a competent stealth/action shooter. What else should I say? I spent money on it, so I'm playing it. It's OK.

So now that we cannot accurately describe any game as RPG or not-RPG, should this site start covering Facebook friend games?

OK, let's assume it's an RPG even if it isn't. Glad to have RPG Watch covering this game. Hooray.

No I'm not obsessed with Bioware games. But Bioware on its worst day is better than this game, and gets way more criticism than this, and that makes no sense to me.

Deus Ex____. An RPG? Nope. An action game? Yes.


There's a difference between actually "discussing" something and just repeating the same things over and over. How about you end the crusade and just STFU?
 
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Go ahead and cover it. I just think it's a giant stretch calling it an RPG. I'd say it's barely an RPG. A lot of people seem to enjoy it. But I'd say it's like 90%-95% shooter/stealth with the remainder RPG.

You play one guy, no choices at all. You can approach certain action scenarios in a different order and with different tactics. But it's a twitch-skill shooter almost completely, and depends on the FPS skill of the guy behind the keyboard/controller. Bioshock had similar choices.

There's nothing inherently wrong with any of that. But add to that the bad voice acting, the weird faces and animations, and the fact that it takes itself so seriously with lame writing makes it highly over rated.

"Hey, Head of security guy for my billion dollar company,—" (who I resurrected and turned into a sort of Steve Austin bionic man at my own expense) "— I need you to go in and rescue a bunch of hostages and basically save my ass. You can choose one kind of gun and a small hand full of bullets to accomplish this" Just one example of crummy story telling.

In my opinion.
 
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No, you're not discussing anything, as I've already showed with the above example. You've just been repeating the same things over and over Ad nauseam. Every one of those quotes was taken from a separate post. That's just ridiculous.
 
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I just had Dhruin chime in to ask me more of my opinion about this and I told him. That's a discussion. Look it up.

This is a new thread about the same game weeks later. Move on man. You really don't have to spend a Tuesday night rehashing the past and copy/pasting old comments. Go play Deus Ex or something. Give up the grudge.

I'm sure each of your eleven-thousand-plus posts is a well-crafted gem dripping with testosterone. It's just a game, it can stand to be criticized.
 
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Let's leave the aggression out (on all sides), please.

Go ahead and cover it. I just think it's a giant stretch calling it an RPG. I'd say it's barely an RPG. A lot of people seem to enjoy it. But I'd say it's like 90%-95% shooter/stealth with the remainder RPG.

OK. Not sure how you get to that number. Moving on…

You play one guy, no choices at all.

Like The Witcher, Gothic, 2W/2 et al? Like Fallout? This doesn't define an RPG.

You can approach certain action scenarios in a different order and with different tactics. But it's a twitch-skill shooter almost completely, and depends on the FPS skill of the guy behind the keyboard/controller. Bioshock had similar choices.

Like The Witcher, Gothic, 2W/2 et al? There isn't much twitch skill required for a stealth playthrough (silly Bosses aside). "Almost completely" is subjective. I didn't play Bioshock to comment.

There's nothing inherently wrong with any of that. But add to that the bad voice acting, the weird faces and animations, and the fact that it takes itself so seriously with lame writing makes it highly over rated.

A matter of opinion but nothing to do with the RPG-ness.

In my opinion.

Sure. You haven't really told me why it isn't an RPG other than claiming its 95% shooter. I say 49.785%…who is right? Leave aide pointless numbers and subjective claims and tell me specifically why DXHR isn't an RPG and any other modern action/RPG is? Or are you arguing anything other than TB party-based games aren't RPG either? Not being smart - you haven't explained clearly.
 
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We shouldn't forget that the two predecessors had boss fights as well. So having them per se doesn't violate the idea of the franchise IMO. It's just the implementation that hurt, and that there is no way to get around them.

I never played IW, but I can safely say that, despite the fact the the original DX has boss battles, you didn't actually need to fight all the bosses. Hacking the right computers gets you around two of them, though the third is unavoidable if I remember correctly.

I was definitely surprised by the total lack of options when facing DXHR's bosses though. No hacking anything to get around them, no talking your way through the situation, no non-lethal takedowns...
 
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It's partially — a small part — an RPG.

The Gothic games (I'm not a fan of those either) at least had you become a nameless almost faceless hero you could put your thoughts on to. Deus Ex makes you into one particular guy with silly facial hair, foppish clothes and a terrible voice that sounds like someone doing a Clint Eastwood impression. In Gothic, you could sort of put yourself into the place of the hero. Hell, at least you could put on different clothes. But these games also have twitch controls that depend on the action skills of the guy behind the keyboard.

I never played the original Fallout games. But Fallout 3 and New Vegas allows customization, a choice of sexes, etc. You don't have to be a weird Canadian ninja. And in the ones I played, you had a pause option and VATS which to me plays out much more like an RPG than a shooter… VATS played out according to skills and ability scores, perks, etc.

The only character progression in Deus Ex is to unlock abilities. Once unlocked, it is STILL up to the guy behind the controller to accomplish based on his twitch-skill with an FPS.

I have issues with the Witcher (first one, I have not played the second one) as an RPG as well. To me it's more of a story action game. Closer to an RPG to me than DEx in that abilities had more to do with game play than timing your moves, aiming etc., like an FPS.

The stealth in DEx requires twitch moving as well. There's no pause, or choosing of abilities in pause mode. Everything is real time. If you move a little out of cover when a guard happens to be looking you are caught. Because of the character? No, because of the controller handling skills of the player.

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My comments on the writing, faces, etc., are a separate issue from it being an RPG. They apply to my other claim, that it is over rated.


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To add to this:

As a general rule, to me, an RPG allows the player some time to think and direct a character or characters. A pause option, or a menu of skills that can come up even in the heat of battle. Directing a character, through level or ability progression, as well as directing him/her through choices, combat, etc., is different than what happens in DEx.

In DEx, you inhabit the actual skin of the character in real time. You run, move and shoot in real time… in first person even. Even avoiding security cameras has nothing to do with your stealth skill… it's a matter of timing for the guy with the controller. This makes it an action game to me, and sets it apart form an RPG.
 
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In Gothic, you could sort of put yourself into the place of the hero. Hell, at least you could put on different clothes.

I'm glad you liked the cliche Eurotrash character with the embarrassing ponytail better but, other than what you like better, there isn't much between them objectively. You don't really want your definition of RPGs to be "can put on different clothes", do you?

I never played the original Fallout games.

You should play them. They sound much closer to your idea of an RPG than virtually any modern "RPG"…in which case, why haven't you played them? Anyway, I was trying to work out the line you were drawing - every Fallout protagonist has some sort of background (vault dweller, tribal, child of a vault scientist who leaves and you have to find him…). Not important now.

The only character progression in Deus Ex is to unlock abilities. Once unlocked, it is STILL up to the guy behind the controller to accomplish based on his twitch-skill with an FPS.

Lots of RPGs are based on unlocking or gaining abilities rather than character stats but I'm not suggesting DXHR isn't a shooter-RPG, rather than a "pure", classic RPG. You are still discounting the stealth and hacking gameplay, which really only relies on very basic skills. You can walk past enemies with the cloak skill and even kill bosses by pressing the Typhoon button. I'm not suggesting there's no play skill but you are over-emphasising the twitch aspect as if were multiplayer Counterstrike.

As a general rule, to me, an RPG allows the player some time to think and direct a character or characters. A pause option, or a menu of skills that can come up even in the heat of battle. Directing a character, through level or ability progression, as well as directing him/her through choices, combat, etc., is different than what happens in DEx.

In DEx, you inhabit the actual skin of the character in real time. You run, move and shoot in real time… in first person even. Even avoiding security cameras has nothing to do with your stealth skill… it's a matter of timing for the guy with the controller. This makes it an action game to me, and sets it apart form an RPG.

I love turn-based, party-based RPGs, so I can certainly understand where you are coming but I also think action/RPGs are a valid (if overused) sub-category. It seems silly to me to embrace (say) The Bards Tale with the most basic of story, no real choices and certainly no consequences as being an RPG because of the stat system but completely discount a game with action combat but reasonable dialogue depth and some clearly defined choices and consequences. Again, I'm not saying it's a pure - or even great - RPG but it's far more than the 5% you are allowing.
 
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This is a new thread about the same game weeks later. Move on man. You really don't have to spend a Tuesday night rehashing the past and copy/pasting old comments. Go play Deus Ex or something. Give up the grudge.

Yes, this is a new thread… where you're just repeating the exact same thing you've already posted over a dozen times in other threads.

I think it's obvious who has the grudge here. We get it… you're not impressed with DX:HR, and you think it's overrated. That's fine. Nobody is saying you can't state your opinion, but how many times are you going to post the same thing?
 
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As a general rule, to me, an RPG allows the player some time to think and direct a character or characters. A pause option, or a menu of skills that can come up even in the heat of battle. Directing a character, through level or ability progression, as well as directing him/her through choices, combat, etc., is different than what happens in DEx.

Well as others have said, the first part of your definition rules out every action rpg ever made, including the gothic series and the elder scrolls games. Now if you really don't think those are RPGs then it's fair enough to say that you wouldn't think DEHR is one as well, but most people would disagree with you.

The second part of your description about having ability progression and directing a character certainly applies to DEHR. It's not deep ability progression, but plenty of RPGs don't have deep ability progression. I'd say it's deeper then Risen or Gothic for example (both also having fairly shallow progression). And you certainly make choices as you play. If a deeper system of choice and consequence is required to be a RPG then you just ruled out many classic turn based RPGs.
 
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