Hellgate London - Demo Released

Are you talking about just the way the games look? If so, then that's the most ridiculous comment I've heard all day. You're going to tell me that a 3D 3rd person game set in a ruined futuristic London looks so similar to a 7 year old 2D isometric game set in a medieval fantasy world, that most people might think they're "basically" the same game at first sight???

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I think we've established that the setting is different. The graphics are different, not least because Diablo is 7 years old.

But everything about the game in terms of UI and gameplay is very reminiscent of Diablo 2. That's what I meant by "sight", because the game is perceived through the eyes. I don't look at Tabula Rasa and think "this is set in the future, so it can't possibly resemble other MMOs". I look at gameplay first, and that's what Hellgate takes DIRECTLY from Diablo 2 and hardly expands upon it, at least not judging by the demo. It seems more like a modified clone than an evolution to me. But I'd have to see the full game before commenting on this in a final way.

I simply mentioned that I enjoyed Hellgate while I hated Diablo 2, and then he responded by insisting that they were the "exact same" game. How do you expect me to interpret that?

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There is no interpretation really, from where I'm sitting. He thinks they're basically the same game, and that's all I can infer from that. His opinion is his opinion, so I have no idea how that can be translated into you being unable to have yours or not enjoy Hellgate. I didn't think he meant it was impossible for you to enjoy Hellgate and hate Diablo 2, as that's obviously what you can do. My guess is he was expressing his opinion because he couldn't understand your position in relation to that.

In any case, given your comments to Dhruin, I can see that you've at least modified your articulation of this. It seems to be you're now able to see what the rest of us can see, to a lesser degree. I'm not saying you can't be right, of course, but at least you're not claiming they're nothing alike (basically) anymore.

I'll take that as a sign we no longer have anything to debate.

DArtagnan said:

But everything about the game in terms of UI and gameplay is very reminiscent of Diablo 2. That's what I meant by "sight", because the game is perceived through the eyes. I don't look at Tabula Rasa and think "this is set in the future, so it can't possibly resemble other MMOs". I look at gameplay first, and that's what Hellgate takes DIRECTLY from Diablo 2 and hardly expands upon it, at least not judging by the demo. It seems more like a modified clone than an evolution to me. But I'd have to see the full game before commenting on this in a final way.

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How is everything about the UI and gameplay reminiscent of Diablo 2?? I don't recall being able to move my character in Diablo 2 with anything other than a mouse click for example.

Anyways, nevermind about that, as I understand what you're trying to say about appearence, even though you're now wording it quite differently than in your previous post.

DArtagnan said:

In any case, given your comments to Dhruin, I can see that you've at least modified your articulation of this. It seems to be you're now able to see what the rest of us can see, to a lesser degree. I'm not saying you can't be right, of course, but at least you're not claiming they're nothing alike (basically) anymore.

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If you're interpreting that as a concession to my original opinion, then you would be incorrect. I don't see Hellgate as just a "Diablo Clone", I think it is more than that. That is simply my opinion though and I'm not trying to force it on anyone else, you're more than welcome to your own.

I'm curious though as to who you're refering to when you say "the rest of us ", as if you assume that everyone else shares your opinion. I've only encountered a total of 2 people that have an opinon that is greatly different than mine. The fact is, the vast majority of gamers have yet to even play the game.

DArtagnan said:

I'll take that as a sign we no longer have anything to debate.

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Sounds good to me.

How is everything about the UI and gameplay reminiscent of Diablo 2?? I don't recall being able to move my character in Diablo 2 with anything other than a mouse click for example.

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Are you having trouble with the word "reminiscent"?

It means that it reminds me of something. In this case, everything (I guess you can only take things literally, so I'll rephrase), ALMOST everything about the UI and the gameplay reminds me of Diablo 2.

Anyways, nevermind about that, as I understand what you're trying to say about appearence, even though you're now wording it quite differently than in your previous post.

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I expanded upon what I meant, but it's good to know you feel you now understand it.

If you're interpreting that as a concession to my original opinion, then you would be incorrect. I don't see Hellgate as just a "Diablo Clone", I think it is more than that. That is simply my opinion though and I'm not trying to force it on anyone else, you're more than welcome to your own.

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A concession? On an internet forum? No, that is not common enough to be expected.

I'm curious though as to who you're refering to when you say "the rest of us ", as if you assume that everyone else shares your opinion. I've only encountered a total of 2 people that have an opinon that is greatly different than mine. The fact is, the vast majority of gamers have yet to even play the game.

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Everyone else in this thread seems to recognize what you didn't seem to recognize at first. Furthermore, I think you're the only one I've encountered so far that so blatantly denied the many obvious connections. I'm sure there are others, I've simply yet to hear anyone state that they hated one, but liked the other and that they weren't very similar.

This quote from you below is the kind of thing that got you into this, in the first place. I'm getting the impression (whether you like it or not) that you now realise your mistake, but I would never expect a concession in this environment. It takes a certain kind of personality to willingly admit their mistake on a public forum, when there's little or no consequence in just saying you meant something entirely different that what you originally said.

"Other than the Hell references they really have nothing in common."

Sounds good to me.

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Great, then I'll move on from this thread.

Does any of the dl sites support "resume"? Gamebanshee, apparently, does not :-(.

It is very similar to D2 even Bill Roper and co say this. Been playing it a bit recently in Beta with my GF and we're enjoying it. Most of the levels are randomly generated but there are some set pieces like in Diablo. I've had a few crash problems using vista and DX10 but the GF has had hardly any problems running the DX9 version.

The game maybe updated to 3D with different play mechanics (with guns etc) but the underling game mechanics are very similar - kill stuff, find stuff, character building, random generation. It's a neat future Cthulhu like thing.

After this interesting discussion I actually stayed till 3 AM in the morning, playing the demo for this game, Hellgate: London, and had fun playing the demo

I agree that the game strongly reminds me of both Diabllo 1 and 2. You have your main quest and your sidequests, your boss monsters and your low critters. However, the setting is very unique as are the monsters. The setting really was kept me going, I think as well as the monster's AI. I like the fact that the monsters just don't storm at you, but sometimes jump at you or back away from you when you back away from them.

For my money, Hellgates takes what the developers have learned in Diabblo 2 and add(s) this to the game. It isn''t just a Diablo 2 clone, but it is clearly game that builds upon the Diablo 2 game. or maybe I should say inspired by Diablo 2. The game mechanics and gameplay are the same as in Diablo, but in this game, Hellgate, you have the choice of fast shot or tactical stance which mean that more strategical-tactical players such as I also have a shot (pun intended) at this game.

This game does not pretend to be more than it is. I like this This game is just meant to be a sort of fun shooting action rpg in a sci fi london after the apocalypse
setting. And it is...

Running around places you have actually been - its pretty interesting.

The beta is better than the demo. Im on level 8 now. The FPS style shooting is refreshing (allthough its still not comparable to real fps games) and there is a kind of a loose story built into it. Im still not sure whether its good as a game or good as an addiction.

Last mmog I played was eve and i quit it after one week when i discovered that the addiction was the only reason I was playing it (the game itself was crappy).

DArtagnan said:

Are you having trouble with the word "reminiscent"?

It means that it reminds me of something. In this case, everything (I guess you can only take things literally, so I'll rephrase), ALMOST everything about the UI and the gameplay reminds me of Diablo 2..

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So having full control over your character with a WASD scheme reminds you of a point and click game? And no I don't only take things literally, I'm just going by what you said, which seems to be constantly changing.

DArtagnan said:

I expanded upon what I meant, but it's good to know you feel you now understand it.

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Actually, you worded it completely different from one post to the next. You went from-

"This is about resembling each other A LOT, to the point where it's not unreasonable to think of them as basically the same game at first sight."

to-

"I think we've established that the setting is different. The graphics are different, not least because Diablo is 7 years old".

Of course then you tried to spin it differently after that by adding -

"That's what I meant by "sight", because the game is perceived through the eyes"

OooooK

DArtagnan said:

Everyone else in this thread seems to recognize what you didn't seem to recognize at first. Furthermore, I think you're the only one I've encountered so far that so blatantly denied the many obvious connections. I'm sure there are others, I've simply yet to hear anyone state that they hated one, but liked the other and that they weren't very similar.

This quote from you below is the kind of thing that got you into this, in the first place. I'm getting the impression (whether you like it or not) that you now realise your mistake, but I would never expect a concession in this environment. It takes a certain kind of personality to willingly admit their mistake on a public forum, when there's little or no consequence in just saying you meant something entirely different that what you originally said.

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Just curious, but who is "everyone"? Would that be you and the 1 or 2 other people that I briefly debated with? So you haven't heard anyone else say they hated Diablo but liked Hellgate, and that means what exactly? As hard as it seems to be for you to comprehend, I'm sure there will be others who disliked Diablo but (*gasp*) actually like Hellgate.

And please feel free to point out how I "blantantly denied" the game having many connections? Do I need to repost my earlier statement to Druin, one which was made at the beginning of this debate, yet again because you seemed to have missed it?

Or would that be the same as your refusal to accept the fact that the games have many differences as well?

"Except for the London setting and the perspective, this is as close to a Diablo clone as you can get."

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Really? Sure you want to stick with that?


"Other than the Hell references they really have nothing in common."

As far that quote is concerned, I was refering to the setting\storyline, but you can interpret it any way you wish. Which is exactly what you've been doing this entire thread.

Hers a scanned pc gamer review (89%) of the game:
http://www.fpsbanana.com/news/9697

zakhal said:

The beta is better than the demo. Im on level 8 now. The FPS style shooting is refreshing (allthough its still not comparable to real fps games) and there is a kind of a loose story built into it. Im still not sure whether its good as a game or good as an addiction.

Last mmog I played was eve and i quit it after one week when i discovered that the addiction was the only reason I was playing it (the game itself was crappy).

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Well I, for one, can tell you they've kept the addictive formula going. I found myself playing the demo too late into last night, despite my best intentions. Whatever deal the Blizzard North guys made with the devil for the insanely addictive formula they started this whole series with (D1, D2 and now HG) is obviously worth it's weight in gold. Still, I swear to God I'm not buying this game!

Why any of you are even bothering trying to reason with this delusional "person" called JDR13 is beyond me. Obviously he's only capable of comparing games via control scheme and viewpoint, and has no idea what you're talking about when you mention these things called "gameplay" and its underlying systems. He even had no clue that Hellgate's maps are supposed to be randomized. Just ignore him.

For the record the demo is unimpressive and from the beta impressions I've heard the maps continue to be boring, lame, instanced railroads instead of continuing the tradition of Diablo's randomized mazes with plenty of long dead ends. And having to subscribe just to get access to Hardcore mode is pushing it.

The first German review:

PC Action (print mag): 81%

Gorath said:

The first German review:

PC Action (print mag): 81%

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I would guess that this includes a +10% Roper and a +5% EA bonus so the score sounds about right assuming that the "true" score that they really meant to award the game is ~65% .

vrok said:

Why any of you are even bothering trying to reason with this delusional "person" called JDR13 is beyond me. Obviously he's only capable of comparing games via control scheme and viewpoint, and has no idea what you're talking about when you mention these things called "gameplay" and its underlying systems. He even had no clue that Hellgate's maps are supposed to be randomized. Just ignore him.

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Congratulations on your 2nd post, we welcome everyone here, even the trolls.

Everyone has their opinon, after all, this is a forum is it not? The only people here who are delusional are the ones who try to force their opinion on someone else.

Moriendor said:

I would guess that this includes a +10% Roper and a +5% EA bonus so the score sounds about right assuming that the "true" score that they really meant to award the game is ~65% .

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What, Roper gets his own bonus?

Gorath said:

What, Roper gets his own bonus?

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Yeah. The Diablo fanboy-ism is strong in some reviewers .