Deus Ex and Invisible War

Tilean · June 11, 2011

Human Revolution is coming out in less than 3 months. So earlier this year I played through the two original Deus Ex games for the first time. I had never finished the first one and consequently didn't try the second one, so I felt that actually completing them both before the third one comes out would be somewhat necessary.

Considering the vast amount of hate the second game has received from both the mainstream gaming media and various Internet communities, I was quiet shocked to see that Invisible War is actually quite a decent game and in some parts even better than the original. Things which I consider to be better in Invisible War are mainly the better focused and more relevant augmentations, the actual gunplay and the more numerous side quests with more choices in them.

Most people will of course agree that the original is better. However, when compared to most other games Invisible War is still pretty fantastic and one of the most unique games out there.

I am basically just interested in the number of people here that think Invisible War is an enjoyable experience and much better than most products the industry is offering today.

Nerevarine · June 11, 2011

Tilean said:
Human Revolution is coming out in less than 3 months. So earlier this year I played through the two original Deus Ex games for the first time. I had never finished the first one and consequently didn't try the second one, so I felt that actually completing them both before the third one comes out would be somewhat necessary.

Considering the vast amount of hate the second game has received from both the mainstream gaming media and various Internet communities, I was quiet shocked to see that Invisible War is actually quite a decent game and in some parts even better than the original. Things which I consider to be better in Invisible War are mainly the better focused and more relevant augmentations, the actual gunplay and the more numerous side quests with more choices in them.

Most people will of course agree that the original is better. However, when compared to most other games Invisible War is still pretty fantastic and one of the most unique games out there.

I am basically just interested in the number of people here that think Invisible War is an enjoyable experience and much better than most products the industry is offering today.

I completely agree, and I had a very similar experience when I played Invisible War. I think that certain elements of the original were certainly better - mainly the larger levels and level design in general - but in other ways, Invisible War was an improvement. For example, I felt that the augmentations were far more useful in IW. I also really enjoyed the more futuristic, but still very "Deus Ex" atmosphere.

Invisible War had a few drawbacks, but in reality, so did the original. If there was some way to combine the two games - the improved gameplay and augmentations of IW with the near-perfect level design of the original - it would make for the perfect DE experience.

JDR13 · June 11, 2011

While I agree that IW isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, I wouldn't call it "fantastic" by any stretch of the imagination.

Any improvements over the original (and there were very few) were offset by the terrible level design. I think it would have been a completely different game had it been designed for PC first.

Nerevarine · June 11, 2011

JDR13 said:
While I agree that IW isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, I wouldn't call it "fantastic" by any stretch of the imagination.

Any improvements over the original (and there were very few) were offset by the terrible level design. I think it would have been a completely different game had it been designed for PC first.

I personally agree that the level design was superior in the original, but calling Invisible War's level design terrible might be a bit too harsh. It still had more options available in terms of a player being able to choose how to complete an objective than the vast majority of games, even today sadly. The biggest flaw in my opinion is that the levels weren't as large, leading to fewer pure exploration opportunities, but the design formula created in the first game was very much still intact (albeit within smaller levels).

JDR13 · June 11, 2011

Nerevarine said:
I personally agree that the level design was superior in the original, but calling Invisible War's level design terrible might be a bit too harsh. It still had more options available in terms of a player being able to choose how to complete an objective than the vast majority of games, even today sadly. The biggest flaw in my opinion is that the levels weren't as large, leading to fewer pure exploration opportunities, but the design formula created in the first game was very much still intact (albeit within smaller levels).

Not terrible in a general sense, but terrible (to me) when compared directly to Deus Ex.

I guess that's the problem though, isn't it? IW has the disadvantage of being the sequel to one of the greatest rpg/fps hybrids ever made.

Nerevarine · June 11, 2011

JDR13 said:
Not terrible in a general sense, but terrible (to me) when compared directly to Deus Ex.

I guess that's the problem though, isn't it? IW has the disadvantage of being the sequel to one of the greatest rpg/fps hybrids ever made.

I think that you completely nailed it. Invisible War didn't meet the standard of Deus Ex (in my opinion one of the greatest games ever made, let alone fps/rpg hybrids) and that probably made it hard to look at objectively for most people - or at least, in terms of judging it entirely on its own merits and not comparing it directly to Deus Ex.

I had a huge advantage in that regard in playing IW first and then Deus Ex thanks to a computer that couldn't run the original when it first came out. I was able to recognize that the original was superior while also realizing that the sequel was still a really solid game on its own merits. If the improved gameplay mechanics, more useful augmentations, and futuristic atmosphere of Invisible War could be placed directly within the levels of the first Deus Ex, that would pretty much be a near-perfect game for me. I hate to be cynical, but Human Revolution kind of looks like it will sadly be an entirely new entity with few similarities to either of the first two. (Great…Now it looks like I can't look at a Deus Ex game without directly comparing it to the previous entries in the series

)

Tilean · June 11, 2011

JDR13 said:
While I agree that IW isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, I wouldn't call it "fantastic" by any stretch of the imagination.

Any improvements over the original (and there were very few) were offset by the terrible level design. I think it would have been a completely different game had it been designed for PC first.

The main problem I think is the engine which was badly optimized for the game. You frequently have to transverse between the incredibly small areas if you are doing the sidequests and the loading times of the levels are nerve-wrackingly long.

I tried to imagine how the game would feel if the loading times were gone. The levels would seem to be a lot bigger and I think the game would have been a lot more fun in general because of this. I also don't believe the level design to be terrible since I tried to imagine the areas as continuous.

Personally, I don't think that the original's level design was that much better. Yes, the levels were more open and just bigger in general and alternate paths required more exploration, but they are just as obvious as in Invisible War. I was actually quite annoyed when I finished it, because the overly long exploration often felt more like a drag than real fun. Especially towards the end the slow pace of the level design is often quite spectacularly outmatched by the speed of the story which is moving at a break-neck speed. This results in the gameplay experience feeling somewhat tedious and long-winded.

JDR13 · June 12, 2011

Nerevarine said:
I had a huge advantage in that regard in playing IW first and then Deus Ex thanks to a computer that couldn't run the original when it first came out.

That makes a significant different imo. People usually tend to favor games that they played first in a series.

For example, I like System Shock 2 slightly more than SS1, while most fans of those games seem to think the original game was superior. I didn't play SS1 until years after playing the sequel though, and I think that has a significant impact on my opinion. I noticed the same thing with other series as well.

I didn't play IW until 2009, and it was immediately after a replay of Deus Ex, which in retrospect I regret doing. I think I might have enjoyed it more if I hadn't played them back to back.

JDR13 · June 12, 2011

Tilean said:
Personally, I don't think that the original's level design was that much better. Yes, the levels were more open and just bigger in general and alternate paths required more exploration, but they are just as obvious as in Invisible War. I was actually quite annoyed when I finished it, because the overly long exploration often felt more like a drag than real fun. Especially towards the end the slow pace of the level design is often quite spectacularly outmatched by the speed of the story which is moving at a break-neck speed. This results in the gameplay experience feeling somewhat tedious and long-winded.

I can only speculate that you're just not the type who really enjoys exploration. Never in my life have I thought "hmm these levels are too big", while playing a game, and at no point did I ever find any of the levels in Deus Ex tedious in any way.

Couchpotato · June 12, 2011

I cant really understand how Deus Ex is better than Invisible War. Both game immersed me in the setting and were enjoyable. They both had flaws. Maybe there is truth to the whole rose tinted goggle theory since most gamers and movie goers prefer the original.

Tilean · June 12, 2011

JDR13 said:
I can only speculate that you're just not the type who really enjoys exploration. Never in my life have I thought "hmm these levels are too big", while playing a game, and at no point did I ever find any of the levels in Deus Ex tedious in any way.

Actually I do like exploration in games, and I love big, open-ended RPGs like Bethesda's titles (when I have the time needed for them). However, I am a bit obsessive when it comes to exploration and I tend to "overexplore". For example, when I played a level in Deus Ex I always made sure I had discovered all possible, alternative routes, before actually choosing one and often backtracked to see what I had missed. Maybe because of this playstyle the novelty of the whole "alternative paths" thing wore off pretty quickly for me. The nature of these alternatives also started to feel pretty formulaic.

bkrueger · June 12, 2011

Tilean said:
Actually I do like exploration in games, and I love big, open-ended RPGs like Bethesda's titles (when I have the time needed for them). However, I am a bit obsessive when it comes to exploration and I tend to "overexplore". For example, when I played a level in Deus Ex I always made sure I had discovered all possible, alternative routes, before actually choosing one and often backtracked to see what I had missed. Maybe because of this playstyle the novelty of the whole "alternative paths" thing wore off pretty quickly for me. The nature of these alternatives also started to feel pretty formulaic.

So you blame the game for your play style?

Thrasher · June 13, 2011

Tilean said:
Actually I do like exploration in games, and I love big, open-ended RPGs like Bethesda's titles (when I have the time needed for them). However, I am a bit obsessive when it comes to exploration and I tend to "overexplore". For example, when I played a level in Deus Ex I always made sure I had discovered all possible, alternative routes, before actually choosing one and often backtracked to see what I had missed. Maybe because of this playstyle the novelty of the whole "alternative paths" thing wore off pretty quickly for me. The nature of these alternatives also started to feel pretty formulaic.

Sounds familiar. I'm losing the patience for this approach, and have too many games on the shelf unplayed because of it. I now pick one path and stick with it.

DArtagnan · June 14, 2011

My take on it is that Deus Ex - and similar early examples of this subgenre invented a "gameplay paradigm" - with certain core mechanics that just WORK.

The reason Invisible War is "ok" - is that it's part of the genre, and it uses the core established concepts. However, in terms of how to make best use of the genre, it's utterly underwhelming.

TINY levels, horrid UI, streamlining for no good reason, rather silly characters, bad combat feel, and more.

So what works is what it takes from OTHER games. It brings almost literally nothing to the genre by itself.

If I had been a lead developer on the title, I'd feel extremely embarrassed by the end result.

So, the good part of the game is the Deus Ex part of the game. The bad part is the Invisible War part.

NFLed · June 17, 2011

I didn't play either of these games when they first were released, I played them both just a couple of years ago. Deus Ex was very good (good enough for me to play it again since the original playthrough) while Invisible War was okay (clearly good enough for me to finish but not to play again). The Nameless One is a full conversion of Deus Ex with a new storyline/characters/etc., it is one of the very best "mods" I have ever played of any game and I highly recommend it, it is free.

JemyM · June 17, 2011

Having played both when the first came out I also enjoyed the second game. It had alot of issues that came from the lousy port but I remember its story better than the first game. I found the ending choice to be very interesting from a political point of view.

Deus Ex and Invisible War

Tilean

Watchdog

Nerevarine

Keeper of the Watch

JDR13

SasqWatch

Nerevarine

Keeper of the Watch

JDR13

SasqWatch

Nerevarine

Keeper of the Watch

Tilean

Watchdog

JDR13

SasqWatch

JDR13

SasqWatch

Couchpotato

Part-Time News-bot

Tilean

Watchdog

bkrueger

Nothing to see here.

Thrasher

Wheeee!

DArtagnan

Guest

NFLed

Keeper of the Watch

JemyM

Okay, now roll sanity.