Hello and A Few Thoughts

Hello. I was just browsing this forum and thought it looked a decent place. Greetings to you all. I'm a 22 year old from England who has played RPGs fairly regularly over the past few years. Not quite the game addict I used to be, but still really appreciate an awesome RPG!

I also wanted to express a few thoughts here, about online communities in RPGs. I've roleplayed on NWN (Neverwinter Nights) online, for quite a long time. I've had two major stints with it but on both occasions I quit the game due to the general horribleness of players. Primarily I want to get opinions here and see if others have experienced similar to me.

The only way I can describe what I have experienced on NWN is evil. My most recent experience, causing me to quit permanently, was 2 days ago. I was playing on a popular NWN social/roleplaying server, just having fun and being friendly to people. My character was quite suddenly insulted by someone I greeted, for no obvious reason. "Keep walking, I have more self-esteem than you have breath, lech".

I was more than a little startled by this, as it was completely out of the blue and unprovoked, but I just took it as IC (In Character). I also knew that a lot of NWN players were quite weird. My character just said, "What the hell? Who are you?". But then they messaged me in a private (OOC) tell, to say something like: "You sad underage nerd. If you're gonna go around being a jerk then at least get some decent clothes. Now piss off."

I was at this point utterly astonished. I had never met this character before, I wasn't being a jerk to anyone. All my character had said to them was "*smiles* Hello." and then the response to their bizarre greeting. I didn't recognise the player log-in and had said nothing to them OOCly. But they were suddenly verbally attacking me for absolutely no reason. I responded in as calm a way as I could, also in a private tell.. "I'm not underage - I'm 22, I'm not a nerd, and my character has decent clothes." My character was still standing in front of them because I had been taken aback by the whole thing and wasn't sure how to proceed ICly. The player then continued to taunt me, the character threatening to kill me if I didn't move, though I knew I was more powerful than them. I was getting riled at this point. Why was such a player on this server? I messaged the DM channel, but there wasn't a DM on.

This was in the main public square so there were about 10 characters hanging round. So I said in OOC, publically, ((Warning: This player is a griefer. They just randomly insulted me in a tell for no reason.)) The reply from people was generally, ((Dude, no-one cares)) with one person being useful and telling me what to do.. ((Screenshot it and send it to the admins)).

But I was at this point riled. I wasn't thinking about calmly screenshotting it and sending it to admins, though I thanked the person for telling me the right course of action. This player was being horrible for no reason, the character was still taunting me (even though I knew I could kill her/him (it appeared to be a 'shemale')). What's more, I was pissed off that some random people had snapped at me rather rudely when I was just warning them that there was a strange troll on the server.

So I took out my sword and attacked the character. Why not? (S)he was insulting me, saying (s)he would kill me with magic if I didn't move away. It was a logical IC reaction of my character, who was a warrior, to thrust a sword at seemingly evil enemies. Literally 2 seconds after I attacked, 2 characters in the square suddenly ran over and killed me. Really high-level hooded characters - they just slashed me, then they turned my body invisible so that no-one would come resurrect me, telling others "//Ignore him, it's a troll."

I was utterly flabberghasted at what had happened. Here was a horrid griefer troll, whom I'd attacked with good reason (PvP was allowed on this server as long as it's IC), and suddenly the mood in the square seemed to be that -I- was the troll.. simply because I was the one who attacked. I had told them what really happened but no-one seemed to care. The troll character was sitting there and suddenly roleplaying with others.

My immediate thought was: Is this a person controlling multiple characters? What the hell just happened? Why did no-one in the square back me up? Sure they didn't see the private tells I received, but they saw her unprovoked IC nastiness and taunts. Why was I completely ignored when I was evidently the victim?

Thankfully there suddenly appeared one player who saw me dead (she had True Seeing), and asked what happened. I told her and she was shocked. She didn't confront anyone but just said to me in a tell, "((Some people here are assholes. Just screenshot it and tell the admins))"

That's what I did, though at the same time I quit the server. Haven't been back on and haven't yet received a response from the admin so I have no clue if the player is banned. But I was so upset and angered by the episode that I effectively rage quit there and then. I don't ever want to play on that server again because, quite frankly, it felt like a conspiracy. It was just so unreal. Effectively, the troll(s) did defeat me as I decided to quit and uninstall NWN completely.

I've been playing NWN on-and-off for years, mostly on the Roleplay servers, so I was certainly aware that there was an amount of bitchiness on almost every NWN server. I had witnessed some weird and unfair events in the past, but that's how it goes - Gaming servers aren't moral kingdoms, so as a player you just have to take the rough with the smooth. But here, I'd just been bullied, attacked, for absolutely no reason.

So, I guess I just want to hear if others have had similar experiences, on any online game. In reality people always told me "Online gamers are just evil", though I tended to ignore them and play anyway. It does make me feel better now to know that these people are literally just evil. Because, at least, that gives me an explanation - the worst thing is just not knowing what the f*ck has happened.

I love Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and it's a shame that NWN could never quite capture the atmosphere of those awesome D&D games. Partly because of the game itself and partly because of the online players.

Hello, and Welcome !

If you just want to do roleplaying - online - and have some fun, then look into this thread : http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9642

I think it could help you.

Cool, thanks! Taking a break from online gaming for at least a week, but that looks good.

Totally agree, check out that thread.

As for what happened, I've got no advice other than don't let it get to you. Next time make some smart alek remark and move on to what you were doing. If you react to their idiocy it will just feed them like some kind of emotional vampire.

Welcome to RPGWatch.

Hi, welcome to rpgwatch. The team Corwin thread is a good way to still be online, but with more trust worthy persons. I've never played a real game online except for NWN with a few of the people here (can't do it anymore since the hours are so horrible for me - 2 am till 5 am)

Yes, welcome! I think you'll find people here much better adjusted than you're NWN experience. BTW, experiences like yours is why I don't play much online - there's too many psychopathic misanthropes and immature brats.

Thrasher said:

there's too many psychopathic misanthropes and immature brats.

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Well said.

Thanks for the welcomes! I've already seen that this forum is more 'normal' than the average NWN server. I find that in general.. People in real-life who are 'into RPGs' are usually cool people. It's just weird that some of the online servers attract so many dregs. I guess it is because they view it as a place to act out their life - a place where they can get kicks and get away with mischief - rather than just having a healthy love of roleplaying in the game.

Welcome to the board.

Team Corwin, which Bart mentioned, has moved on to DDO. We don't really in-character roleplay, so I don't know that it will be what you're looking for, but all members of RPGWatch are eligible (oh yes, we're an exclusive club, we are. ) to join the RPGWatch guild if you wanted to give it a spin.

Is there a chance the location you were in was the equivalent of a gang headquarters? If so, the bad treatment you received, including the ambush and effectively pissing on your grave, would be completely in-character for those guys. Not nice, by any stretch, but appropriate to the characters. Still seems like a case of jackasses to me, but maybe there's a reason for their behavior.

Yes, because they can get away with it with no fear of repercussions. Usually means they're cowards, as well...

dteowner said:

Welcome to the board.

Team Corwin, which Bart mentioned, has moved on to DDO. We don't really in-character roleplay, so I don't know that it will be what you're looking for, but all members of RPGWatch are eligible (oh yes, we're an exclusive club, we are. ) to join the RPGWatch guild if you wanted to give it a spin.

Is there a chance the location you were in was the equivalent of a gang headquarters? If so, the bad treatment you received, including the ambush and effectively pissing on your grave, would be completely in-character for those guys. Not nice, by any stretch, but appropriate to the characters. Still seems like a case of jackasses to me, but maybe there's a reason for their behavior.

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No, it was just in a town square. There are specific guild areas - this was the main town for everyone. Also, I agree that you can play an evil character but when the person sent me an OOC tell, insulting me - that's when I knew they were a troll and not just roleplaying an evil character. As for the 2 guys who suddenly jumped in on me, I guess they could just be roleplaying, yes. But the main one was definitely a jackass troll. The other two were probably trolls.

skavenhorde said:

Totally agree, check out that thread.

As for what happened, I've got no advice other than don't let it get to you. Next time make some smart alek remark and move on to what you were doing. If you react to their idiocy it will just feed them like some kind of emotional vampire.

Welcome to RPGWatch.

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Yes, you're probably right. Some people tell me I need to get thicker skin - that these type of assholes exist all over the internet. I guess I don't want to get sucked down to their level. I could easily become one of those sarcastic jackasses too who is never honest, has no dignity at all and just lives to get kicks out of bringing others down. I imagine it would eventually feel fun, in a very selfish way - that's the only reason I can think for them doing it. So far I've managed to resist ever doing that, but I guess you're right in saying I should yield a bit and become a little bit smart alek, a little bit underhand too, because that's probably what pisses them off.

Laergoth said:

…
So I took out my sword and attacked the character. Why not? (S)he was insulting me, saying (s)he would kill me with magic if I didn't move away. It was a logical IC reaction of my character, who was a warrior, to thrust a sword at seemingly evil enemies. Literally 2 seconds after I attacked, 2 characters in the square suddenly ran over and killed me. Really high-level hooded characters - they just slashed me, then they turned my body invisible so that no-one would come resurrect me, telling others "//Ignore him, it's a troll."
…

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I hate to say this but had you been on my server I definitely would have ruled against you. I'm sorry some idiot harassed you but that's not the way to deal with people and you can't expect everyone to see things your way when you're new on a server.
Additionally, you shouldn't take something personally - his IC antagonizing you was his prerogative and if you can't take it going to far then you need to walk away and RP with others more to your liking in spite of it going to the level of OOC.

But more importantly to randomly attack someone in the middle of a town then calling it IC is just plain ridiculous. This is not my server but I had to deal with guys doing then then turning around and demanding "I was playing my character" all the time. This type of "IC" is too often just a cheap excuse for players to do whatever they feel like. Calling it "role play" is an abused cop out - its something that other game types don't have to deal with, fortunately for them.

I don't know why you come here to rant about your incident (of the immature kind that happens all the time on NWN servers and I expect most MMOGS) but I suspect you were banned from their forums when you didn't get satisfaction there. Again, I've seen others complain the same way in different forums when they were banned or upset at a different server. Ask anyone who moderated a Bioware forum and how many of these had to be locked.

Ah, apologies if I did not make this clear. The character had repeatedly said (s)he was going to kill me with magic if I didn't move. The main reason I attacked her was so that she couldn't cast spells at me. Also, the server allows PvP though some people (perhaps with your mindset) frown upon it. Also, I wasn't new - I'd been on the server for over a month.

To be honest, it sounds like you haven't read what I wrote at all. As I definitely made it clear that they took it to OOC by insulting me in a tell, which is always automatically OOC. Not sure if you have played NWN, but sending someone a tell means 'This isn't roleplay'.

So,

a) I didn't take anything personally except that which was directed to me personally.

b) I only attacked because I was about to be attacked.

c) It wasn't a random attack.

Apologies if I didn't made it clear, but it really feels like you misread! I didn't come here to rant. I came here to gather opinions. I appreciate yours, though again, you misread or misunderstood quite large chunks of what I wrote.

Thanks.

Lucky Day said:

I hate to say this but had you been on my server I definitely would have ruled against you. I'm sorry some idiot harassed you but that's not the way to deal with people and you can't expect everyone to see things your way when you're new on a server.
Additionally, you shouldn't take something personally - his IC antagonizing you was his prerogative and if you can't take it going to far then you need to walk away and RP with others more to your liking in spite of it going to the level of OOC.

But more importantly to randomly attack someone in the middle of a town then calling it IC is just plain ridiculous. This is not my server but I had to deal with guys doing then then turning around and demanding "I was playing my character" all the time. This type of "IC" is too often just a cheap excuse for players to do whatever they feel like. Calling it "role play" is an abused cop out - its something that other game types don't have to deal with, fortunately for them.

I don't know why you come here to rant about your incident (of the immature kind that happens all the time on NWN servers and I expect most MMOGS) but I suspect you were banned from their forums when you didn't get satisfaction there. Again, I've seen others complain the same way in different forums when they were banned or upset at a different server. Ask anyone who moderated a Bioware forum and how many of these had to be locked.

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Actually, I find it quite insulting that you are suggesting I was banned from their forums. I quit out of dignity - as I knew I'd potentially rage if I continued there. When I said I 'rage quit', it was in silent rage. I didn't even flame, I feel I conducted myself well given the circumstances. You're entitled to an opinion, but you seem to have assumed huge quantities of information. If you don't believe me, I will show you and post on the forums of the server. I am not banned in any way, shape or form from there.

To add - this forums seems really interesting. I definitely haven't come here to rant. Only reason I haven't posted elsewhere yet is because I've been busy today. Only joined a few hours ago! Looking forward to contributing to all parts of this decent forum.

Welcome, and hope you find this forum has something you will enjoy. As in life, not everyone here agrees with everyone, but personal attacks and flaming are not what you will find here. Our members conduct themselves with honor, taste, and brain function is high.
As to the Team Corwin game thread, I suggest reading the last few pages first. We played NWN on a private server for years as a group, but technical issues became so frustrating we moved to find something else. DDO has fit the bill.
Post in that thread if you have further interest or questions. And again, new faces are always welcomed here.

Hi, I'm Corwin, of Team Corwin. We're all very familiar with NWN here and TC probably played every MP mod there is for the game, plus a few PW mods since one of our members writes PW's for NWN. Lucky ran his own server for NWN so has a great deal of experience in that area, while the rest of us are primarily just players.

As has been said, we now play DDO (which is Free) on the Khyber server and have our own Guild there. Information on both is available in both the TC thread and in the MMO forum in several threads, so feel free to check it out.

Lucky Day said:

I don't know why you come here to rant about your incident

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Lucky, YOU can't understand why he came to a website that deals specifically with CRPGS to talk about an experience he had while playing NWN? FYI, NWN is a CRPG in case you didn't know. The only thing I think he messed up with is that this might have gone better in the general rpg section since the post is mostly about NWN.

If we can have discussions on the nature of "hardcoreness" or "RPGness" Then we sure as hell can have discussions on gaming experiences. I like rpgwatch because we can discuss pretty much anything we want as long as it's not some kind of idiotic personal attack for no apparent reason.

@laergoth Please ignore lucky day. He seems to be in kill newbie mode.

Check out Corwin's group. I've heard great things about it. Watch out for CM though, I heard she bites

but I guess you're right in saying I should yield a bit and become a little bit smart alek, a little bit underhand too, because that's probably what pisses them off.

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You misunderstood. Make a remark for yourself (who cares if he reads it or not)and then move on ignoring everything they say/do. No underhanded tricks, nothing else. Just ignore them.

I love Blood Bowl because I can totally turn off the chat between players if I want and just play the game. Someone becomes a jerk then I switch the chat screen to show me statistics instead. No more problems at all

People are ignorant. We're all ignorant in our own ways.

In my opinion, people who enjoy ruining the experience of other people, are ignorant in terms of the actual benefit this experience provides. They're ignorant in terms of both the short and long term results of this kind of behavior. Now, I'm sure most griefers disagree - and I'm sure THEY believe it's a beneficial way of interacting. I just happen to think they're wrong.

There's really no solution except to avoid people you don't enjoy interacting with. Seek out a server with different players, or perhaps find some friends to play LAN with, instead.

Whatever you do, though, don't EVER expect other people to behave like you want them to in a virtual world with little or no consequence for unpleasant behavior. That will only serve to frustrate you, and eventually remove the motivation to play online as a whole. You simply CAN'T control such things, and you might as well accept it from the get-go.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Corwin: Cheers. Interested to know what server Lucky ran on NWN as I'm familiar with many.

skavenhorde: Ah apologies, I did use a bit of assumption myself there!

DArtagnan: Yes, that sounds wise.

I definitely agree that the best policy is to ignore them. Sometimes though, in an instant, something really riles you. When it does, it's difficult to move on because then you feel like you're suppressing your emotions. I guess I also initially presumed they'd misunderstood something about me, which is why I pursued it. At first I wanted to know why my character had just been called a jerk. Had this person misinterpreted some joke I'd made with a friend? But when the OOC stuff started, it quickly became obvious that their sole purpose was to rile me. Well, they succeeded. In future I will just have to shake my head and move on.