Big, Big Dungeons

dteowner said:

MM6 had some big ones, too. The final one with all the Cuisinarts (Tomb of Varn?) was a gauntlet-and-a-half. For that matter MM7 had a fairly long one as well with the tunnel to Nighon. Ascension Peak in Wiz8 wasn't a complex map at all, but it was a pretty tough slog.

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Don't think the tomb had any cuisinarts in it, as it was mostly genies and defenders of varn there (dogfaced guards). Huge dungeon though, far too big for my taste.

All in all, MM6 and 7 have some of the best dungeons around. Some are too big (the tomb, the castle in the undead city, etc), but most are excellent.

Big is great as long as variety is preserved. Watcher's Keep in Throne of Bhaal was fabulous because each level feels very different from the last. Also the sequential nature of each level stops you from getting too lost/overwhelmed by the size.

Big dungeons are fine. But there has to be a good amount of unique areas or scenery to help break monotony. Also, there should not be respawns of all monsters, which is the bane of so many RPGs (I'll never forget the respawning kobolds from BG in the dungeon under the mage ruins iirc with those ridiculous kobold commandos that never missed with those damned bows). There also has to be places the party can rest safely. However, all these must be implemented such that the difficulty does not become too easy.

In U6P, the dungeons I've been in all have a theme. I think that's important, so that the character has a desire to visit. One dungeon is known for it's gold mines, the next is a crypt with buried mages, not all resting peacefully, the next is a Dragon nest or a spider's den. One of the largest dungeons changes at times because it covers such a large area. It has sewer areas, followed by an abandoned prison which opens into a large subterranean level with an underground lake and culminates in a pirate's den that opens up near the sea. For somebody like me, to whom exploration is a favorite aspect, big dungeons are a boon. Keeping variety up is a key though.

I'm not sure what your question was, alexdwsn12. Do I mind backtracking? Not really. It's to be expected. When I drive to the grocery store in real life, I have to backtrack to get to Walmart

I've found some of the dungeons are actually pretty dull. The first few I went to were very well done, but I think the guy got bored when designing this last one I visited. The theme seemed to be deception, but the monster and treasure layout was "meh" at best. There was no compelling reason to visit this dungeon. This would be a good warning to developers: Make sure every dungeon has a clear purpose. Otherwise, yank it out of the game and spend your energy elsewhere.

Hmmm, remember the old D1-3 modules for the original Advanced Dungeons & Dragons? Remember the map in them that showed how you were just crossing through a thin patch of a vast, underground society? Do that whole thing. That'd be cool. I've always wanted to visit that sea in the north east...

Variety is important, yes, but you also have to have some sort of common story. Otherwise you're better off having different dungeons, IMHO.

Underground society ? Then read "Tunnels".