Wasteland 2 - Review Roundup #1

I just started playing the game and I agree it starts out slow. The game also has flaws just like any RPG, but I'm having a blast. I guess the old school factor is the main reason.

I seriously feel like I'm playing one of the older Fallout games.
smiley-happy036.gif
 
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Shoothing shit and blowing things up are not what I would have expected to be mentioned from a Watch member as the fun parts of WL2.

So the game gets fun if you keep playing?

So all these early impressions around here by people who played 2-3 hours and love it are, essentially, hallucinating?

Haters always gonna hate, i'm never gonna change anybodys mind if they've already decided it's not for them. Want instant gratification, toddle off and have a wank.

Why shouldn't shooting shit and blowing shit up be mentioned by Watch members? It's as much a part of most RPG's as anything else. Someones just looking to start arguments for arguments sake, ring any bells? :p
 
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Haters always gonna hate, i'm never gonna change anybodys mind if they've already decided it's not for them. Want instant gratification, toddle off and have a wank.

Why shouldn't shooting shit and blowing shit up be mentioned by Watch members? It's as much a part of most RPG's as anything else. Someones just looking to start arguments for arguments sake, ring any bells? :p

Well, if you can't explain why you're having fun when people want to know, and you have to assume I'm a hater because I'm not really seeing what's so great about it - you're not going to be of much help to me.

As such, I'll leave it alone.

Have fun, though.
 
I just started playing the game and I agree it starts out slow. The game also has flaws just like any RPG, but I'm having a blast. I guess the old school factor is the main reason.

I seriously feel like I'm playing one of the older Fallout games.
smiley-happy036.gif

Sounds reasonable, thanks ;)

I figured the old-school factor was prevalent.
 
Sorry mate, it's not an RPG, you can call it what you want but that's a turn based tactical combat game. Nothing wrong with that, just calling things by it's real names. The fact that it has skills, leveling up and a few dialogues doesn't magically turns into an RPG a game where, essentialy, you manage your action points or whatever they call them in Wasteland, you manage your ammo, you manage your cover, you manage your wounds and after all that managing you come up with a nice strategy to defeat the thugs with minimal damage to your team. That's not immersing in a game setting (something I connect with RPGs) that's immersing in game accounting. Not quite the same. Anyway, I like good tactical squad based games. I like X-COM. I like what I've seen of Invisible Inc. Haven't tried yet Xenonauts. But I found Wasteland 2 lacking in a lot of details. Maybe because the devs were making a squad based tactical game with an RPG flavour to it, I don't know. What I know is that it did not capture my attention.
 
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Sorry mate, it's not an RPG, you can call it what you want but that's a turn based tactical combat game. Nothing wrong with that, just calling things by it's real names. The fact that it has skills, leveling up and a few dialogues doesn't magically turns into an RPG a game where, essentialy, you manage your action points or whatever they call them in Wasteland, you manage your ammo, you manage your cover, you manage your wounds and after all that managing you come up with a nice strategy to defeat the thugs with minimal damage to your team. That's not immersing in a game setting (something I connect with RPGs) that's immersing in game accounting. Not quite the same. Anyway, I like good tactical squad based games. I like X-COM. I like what I've seen of Invisible Inc. Haven't tried yet Xenonauts. But I found Wasteland 2 lacking in a lot of details. Maybe because the devs were making a squad based tactical game with an RPG flavour to it, I don't know. What I know is that it did not capture my attention.

Hey Couch, you'd better remove all WL2 content from the site, it's not an RPG after all. /facepalm :roll:
 
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Hey Couch, you'd better remove all WL2 content from the site, it's not an RPG after all. /facepalm :roll:
That's news to me as it's basically plays like Fallout with a squad instead of a single chosen one. Maybe I should remove the older Fallout games also.:thinking:

I'm just kidding as everyone is entitled to an opinion.

(Doesn't mean I always agree with everyone);)
 
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I agree with Couch, I'm biased because I like the Old school vibe. If I try to take a step back and look at what I like about it though, there are several things that come to mind.

First, I love the fact that during character creation I have no possible way to cover all the skills I would like, meaning that no matter what I do I won't have a party that can do everything. I like the fact that I really have to think about what roles I want my party members to fill, what seoncdary skills I want for my playthrough and which ones I'll have to do without.

Second, the atmosphere is great. The writing is way above average in my book, the environments are cool and the general feel of the game is…just right.

Third: I have to disagree with MigRib, to me alot of Wasteland 2 is what I most want in an RPG. There's plenty of CnC, and different ways to solve problems. And yes, character building with skills that matter.

That said, my major cons would be:

No perk system, a shame because it's not quite as rewarding just putting out a couple of skill points when you level, even if they make a difference.

Combat. It's not at all bad, but I would have liked more options like special attacks, flanking bonuses etc.

EDIT: Typos and miswrites.
 
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That's news to me as it's basically plays like Fallout with a squad instead of a single chosen one. Maybe I should remove the older Fallout games also.:thinking:

I'm just kidding as everyone is entitled to an opinion.

(Doesn't mean I always agree with everyone);)

I had this discussion before here, but, as I've been misunderstood before I'll have it again.
I played real RPGs (when I say real I mean the pen & paper kind) for quite a long time. Even before there was such a thing as cRPGs (or maybe I started playing P&P by the time the first "computer role playing games" appeared. Those were little more than text-based adventures, anyway). So, when I talk about RPGs, I always talk about RPGs in general, and there are cRPGs that are more in touch with the spirit of a P&P RPG (I will exclude Dungeons & Dragons and it's clones from true pen & paper RPGs, as they were mostly played as a mix between RPG and board game - or, in fact, as tactical party based games...).
Maybe there are one hundred other reasons why the old-school RPGs are almost all tactical games (yes, the original Fallout is one of those, as is the sequel and, of course, Fallout Tactics, as the name implies). For one thing they are the product of a time when D&D was still THE game and the idea of playing an RPG for.. well, role playing... was still in it's infancy. Fortunately that changed quite a lot in the following years. But in the late 80s, and mid 90s that was accepted as quite normal. Also in that time (ancient, when we speak about computer games) it was much easier to adapt the mechanical part of pen & paper RPGs than the immersion bits, the playing a role bits. So, old-school RPGs turned out to function as a Dungeons & Dragons game session, even when their setting was sci-fi ou whatever. It made sense. It makes no sense nowadays.
Wasteland 2, being faithful to the old-school tradition, is mostly about combat, but in a tactical way. The isometric perspective alone does tell a lot about the true purpose of this kind of game - it does not mean to immerse in the game world, it wants to give you the tactical distance so you can choose the most effective way to defeat your foes. The same applies for the turns and the importance given to management of equipment and assets. It all has the strategical state of mind flavour, even if it is served in a squad based form, and not in the epical battle way.
This said, I obviously can't deny that the original Fallout and it's sequel and Wasteland 2 and a lot of other games have also been added an extra touch. The characters can be customized, they have skills, attributes, sometimes perks or quirks, they have equipment, they can learn things, they can have dialogues. Sometimes there are even more options than in other more immersive games (but I bet that's just because they saved money skiping most voice acting).
So, are they RPGs? In the true sense they are not, they are tactical based games with dialogues and character customization. Like Dungeons & Dragons, but that's a poor excuse for a role playing game (and, I know, this is a matter of opinion). Without real immersion there can be no role playing (again this is an opinion, of course, a question of preference). BUT if you say they are old-school RPGs well, in that point I couldn't agree more. Indeed, they are old-school RPGs.
Anyway, for what I've seen (and also red about) this one, for an old-school RPG which meant to follow in the foosteps of all the classics, didn't quite achieve the bold promises it made. Again, an opinion.
 
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I agree with Couch, I'm biased because I like the Old school vibe. If I try to take a step back and look at what I like about though, there are several things that come to mind.

First, I love the fact that during character creation I have no possible way to cover all the needed skills, meaning that no matter what I do I won't have a party that can do anything. I like the fact that I reallt have to think about what roles I want my party members to fill, what seoncdary skills I want for my paythrough and which ones I'll have to do without.

Second, the atmosphere is great. The writing is way above average in my book, the environments are cool and the general feel of the game is…just right.

Third: I have to disagree with MigRib, to me alot of Wasteland 2 is what I most want in an RPG. There's plenty of CnC, and differnet ways to solve problems. And yes, character building with skills that matter.

That said, my major cons would be:

No perk system, a shame because it's not quite as rewarding just putting out a couple of skill points when you level, even if they make a difference.

Combat. It's not at all bad, but I would have liked more options like special attacks, flanking bonuses etc.

Good, an informative answer.

I don't personally enjoy the skill bloat - and I think that in a party-based game like this, it's not a problem to be able to cover all the bases. In fact, that's what I prefer - as part of the fun of creating your own party, is designing a strategy to circumvent all the problems and to experience all the meaningful content.

In a single-character game, though, it makes more sense to specialise and "miss out" on certain things.

Then again, I'm not much into replaying games.

From the hours I've spent with beta, the writing isn't my cup of tea. It's too "out there", which reminds me of Fallout 3 writing. I don't know why that kind of insane humor is prevalent - but it's not for me.

As for atmosphere, I wasn't impressed - but maybe that changes. I really do like the "green" approach I'm seeing in picture, but I didn't get to see much of that in beta.

So, I don't know. Sounds like there's enough there for me to give it a chance.

But no perks, aimed shots and so on were really strange omissions in a game with this much combat.
 
Now for something more practical: way too many skills. I felt overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of skills that probably will be used and the scarcity of points to distribute. Again, the same old-school state of mind that you have to spent hundreds os hours building up the characters so they can do anything useful.
Also, after finding that there are so many enemies that the ammo finishes on the middle of a mission I was wondering why the hell there was no way to loot some of the defeated foes melee weapons? Is that a bug? Was that because I didn't have the right skill? But the items didn't even show up in the inventory, they should, even if I can't use them properly, right? Couldn't understand that bit, and ended up brawling for my life.
Also, the main character's picture was supposed to show up in the lower left corner as it was after customization, right? I know it's just a wee detail, but I thought they would cover that when the game was launched. But no, it still shows the pre-customized face. Although in-game the character is as it should be.
 
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Reviews skim over gameplay. The review that is the least silent over gameplay is the one that does not give a mark. How bizarre. Should the review be nice or neutral?

Nothing on estimates. Since the game is based on the sequence "ugoigo", what are the reliability of the estimates? Any of the deeply gameplay inclined players to give an answer?
 
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Alright MigRib, I see your points, even though I feel your definition of a RPG is alot narrower than mine I respect your opinion.

As for the skill bloat, I disagree, I like the fact that even with my party of 4 I can't cover all the bases. But if I pick the right followers I probably can, so it's not undoable.

Haven't had a problem with ammo yet so can't comment on that since I'm not that far into the game, and the portraits are working just fine for me.
 
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Sorry mate, it's not an RPG, you can call it what you want but that's a turn based tactical combat game.
Probably more strategical. It would be very surprising if this game favour the application of tactics.
Just reading the one review that touches the gameplay reads like it does not.
 
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Probably more strategical. It would be very surprising if this game favour the application of tactics.
Just reading the one review that touches the gameplay reads like it does not.

It's the other way around actually, at least if you're talking about combat. Strategy usually refers to large scale plans, if we're talking military strategy is what makes up a campaign, what troops to deploy where, what resources to aquire, what positions to hold etc.

Tactics are what's used in individual battles, troop positioning etc.

In computer games the Total War series gives a pretty good example, the turn based strategy map is the strategical part, while the real time battles would be the tactical.

If in reference to Wasteland to you say strategic and mean how to build your characters and look at the whole game as a continual campaign, then sure, but that's a bit far fetched.

The combat is what would be called tactical, not strategic.
 
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Haven't had a problem with ammo yet so can't comment on that since I'm not that far into the game, and the portraits are working just fine for me.

I dind't play that much also, but I guess I'm not used to be that much worried about bullet count. But, damn, the portrait thing is strange. I was almost sure they changed that still in one of the beta releases... Odd things happen.
 
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As much as I love the recent surge of 'old school' games, I don't mind if they would modernize it in the right places.

Eg, the tedious inventory management in dos should be better. Quest markers arent all bad, though a very good journal that organizes everything for you is better. dos doesn't make it clear enough: where the quest giver can be found, hints and tips from the dialogue etc.
 
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This looks exactly as what is done in games like W2.

What is that? Ah, yes, strategy…

Actually no. Strategy is about the big picture. WL2 is tactical in nature, both in the military sense of the word and game sense. Your opinion might differ, but either the words means something different in your native language or you've got it backwards.

A quick google search gives this:

Strategy - Tactic difference in military usage
In military usage, a distinction is made between strategy and tactics. Strategy is the utilization, during both peace and war, of all of a nation's forces, through large-scale, long-range planning and development, to ensure security or victory.
Tactics is the military science that deals with securing objectives set by strategy, especially the technique of deploying and directing troops, ships, and aircraft in effective maneuvers against an enemy.

I don't really see this as a matter of opinion. Like I said you could argue that many RPG's are strategical in the fact that you have a plan for your characters, and that would indeed count as strategic. You cannot however argue that the combat part in most party based RPG's is more strategical than tactical, that is simply wrong.

I know we're a bit OT, so I'll leave it at this.
 
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