Skyrim - Released, Review Roundup #1

jhwisner said:

I bring you PC screenshots posted by some Aussie players:

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These look plenty good enough to me. Still reminds me of Oblivion but a lot less cartoony. One of the things I like about the Gothic series is the craggy terrain, which Skyrim looks to have too. So much more atmospheric than those rolling, computer generated Oblivion hills.

One of the advantages of an enormous to-play stack is that I can wait to play new releases until after they've gone through the seemingly-inevitable patch cycle. From the reviews so far it sounds like Skyrim's flaws are mostly the sort of thing that can be patched or mod-fixed given time. So I shall give them that time and see how the game looks early next year.

Can you turn off the ever-more present quest-compass?

khaight said:

One of the advantages of an enormous to-play stack is that I can wait to play new releases until after they've gone through the seemingly-inevitable patch cycle. From the reviews so far it sounds like Skyrim's flaws are mostly the sort of thing that can be patched or mod-fixed given time. So I shall give them that time and see how the game looks early next year.

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Yeah - for example the complaint about some NPCs being particularly unanimated during conversations could be improved by a straight-forward, though time-consuming, mod that added a table of lists of appropriate animations/gestures for combinations of NPC disposition and the modder's subjective evaluation of the tone of that line or segment of dialog. The modder would have to script or tag "tone" themselves; they would also have to create the lists of appropriately categorized animations. Once this is done, any emotional or emphatic dialog where they beleive the NPC seems stragely statuesque could include a call to this table (with their evaluation of the appropriate tone being part of the call) and a random animation from the context-based lists would be played. This would have the added benefit (and potential hilariousness from miscategorized animations on the part of the modder) that one would not see the same couple gestures repeated over and over.

For example, consider an dialog option about some recent event to which the NPC responds with anger about the event (but not nescessarily to having been asked about it.) A call to this table could be added which specified the tone of "anger" - which would be specifying a column in the matrix of lists. For an NPC with high disposition towards the player the specific list of animations might include something like turning away slightly and looking upwards and shaking their fist. The specific list of animations for a combination of very low disposition and anger might include something similar - but shaking their fist and glaring at the player.

I'd like to attempt to start something like this, though I haven't even had a chance to look at the new tools yet. Maybe I'll title it in homage to the impressive and ambitious Morrowind mod - the "less generic npc project" - and call it the "more gesticular NPC project".

I wouldn't think I could implement integrating a system for calling random context-specifc animations in all places they were needed; I don't think anyone person has that much time. Maybe I could create the scripting and base contextual lists for something this.

KapitanUnterhosen said:

Can you turn off the ever-more present quest-compass?

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You can turn off markers, yes.

As expected. All early reviews will be positive.

The points of critique I've seen in all German reviews I've read so far:
(This is of course taken out of context. The German reviews are as positive as the English ones.)

- the interface is made for gamepad. Mouse & keyboard are uncomfortable (menues) and not 100% precise (combat)
- the inventory is uncomfortable.
- the quest log sucks ass. After some time you won't find anything in it.
- the story can be written on a beer coaster.
- the characters are as thin as said beer coaster.
- there is no suspense whatsoever.
- Choices & Consequences: largely absent.
- the auto-generated quests are boring. (main quest and side quests are better)
- too much repetition. Too many quests end in a grave full of skeletons. The skeletons do look spectacular though.

Apart from that Skyrim has all the typical strengths of the Elder Scrolls franchise.
The scores are the usual low 90s.

Dhruin said:

You can turn off markers, yes.

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Some of the reviews mention that the quest log sucks so hard that you effectively need the markers to find back to the quest NPC.


On the other hand I've learned to like quest markers. Quite often spending minutes to find a certain NPC is simply a waste of time.

Given how incredibly frustrating I found Oblivion's interface, and that what I'm reading on boards with actual gamers (as opposed to reviewers) suggests that the PC interface in Skyrim is even more shitty than Oblivion's was (even the first-run, pie-in-the-sky reviews mention PC interface issues), I'm going to wait and see what Bethesda does with their "improving the game" DLC. Or, if they can't be bothered to support my interface of choice properly, what the modding community comes up with.

Failing both of those things, this game, no matter how great it may be, will just end up being a source of frustration for me.

Will pass for now. Sorry, Bethesda. You want this gamer's coin, you're going to need to hork up a decent interface for the PC. And don't even THINK of making me pay extra for it. Is too bad; looks like it could be a good game, too.

"I seriously worried Skyrim would, for all its talk of lavishness, depth and dragons, continue the transformation into a trudging, consolified action game filled with clunky acting. It does not. It slams on the brakes then reverses at dangerous speed back into Morrowind territory. "

I'd like to take this quote much more seriously, but the game just released, and with the flow of hype everywhere, everyone's caught up in how wonderful the game is rather than really paying attention to any existing flaws. Is he really speaking the truth? I would be thrilled if he was.

Although, I'm not at all surprised by the constant 9/10 and 10/10 scores. Disappointed by lack of custom spells as well. Despite all this, however, I'm quite pleased with what I've read and am eagerly anticipating it.

I think I'll get my monies worth out of it. Looking forward to spending some time with it when I finish work.

Mithter Thibbs said:

Given how incredibly frustrating I found Oblivion's interface, and that what I'm reading on boards with actual gamers (as opposed to reviewers) suggests that the PC interface in Skyrim is even more shitty than Oblivion's was (even the first-run, pie-in-the-sky reviews mention PC interface issues), I'm going to wait and see what Bethesda does with their "improving the game" DLC. Or, if they can't be bothered to support my interface of choice properly, what the modding community comes up with.

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The interface is definitely console oriented and not ideal, however, I don't agree it is worse than Oblivion. Simply being able to press 'm' for the map, 'j' for journal and 'i' for inventory already makes it substantially more useable than Oblivion. With some mods to decrease the size and so on, it will be quite serviceable, though never ideal. The star constellation thing isn't as bad as I expected.

The lack of a paper-doll is a shame but I personally think leaving Skyrim aside over the interface is a mistake.

Hmmm like I said in another thread, if you approach the UI with the mindset of using the WASD keys instead of the mouse you won't have any problems with the UI. It actually works pretty good.

Gorath said:

- the story can be written on a beer coaster.
- the characters are as thin as said beer coaster.
- there is no suspense whatsoever.
- Choices & Consequences: largely absent.

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This is typical TES though, anyone looking for these things in a TES game is looking for chicken at a steakhouse.

That doesn't excuse TES. New Vegas showed me that you can have a huge world to explore and have a good story, C&C and good characters.

Saying that it's the way it's always been done doesn't work anymore. Not after another company showed them how to do it right.

I'm saying this without actually have played the game so I have no idea if Gorath is right or not, but it sounds like Bethesda needs to take more notes from Obsidian or hire them to do the next one

I've watched about 15-20 hours of gameplay videos and livestreams, and I played the game for about 20 minutes myself earlier this week.

Personally I found the story and the characters encountered along the way to be compelling and engaging, much more so than in any previous TES game I've played (Morrowind and Oblivion). The main quest, the civil war quests and the four major faction questlines (based on the portions I saw) all seemed to populated by more lifelike characters with goals, conflicting interests, a sort of a "soul" that was sometimes missing in the interactions with numerous NPCs in Oblivion. The voice acting was fantastic across the board except for one generic guard who speaks with a Schwarzeneggar voice.

Dhruin said:

The interface is definitely console oriented and not ideal, however, I don't agree it is worse than Oblivion. Simply being able to press 'm' for the map, 'j' for journal and 'i' for inventory already makes it substantially more useable than Oblivion. With some mods to decrease the size and so on, it will be quite serviceable, though never ideal. The star constellation thing isn't as bad as I expected.

The lack of a paper-doll is a shame but I personally think leaving Skyrim aside over the interface is a mistake.

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Perhaps. Will need to see/read a little more before making that call.

Have become resigned to the fact that an actual point-and-click/drag and drop interface for inventory, for example, is simply a thing of the past even for titles that claim to be "PC-oriented" (lookin' at you, Witcher 2) because of the mere possibility that they might want to port the game to consoles at some point, but Oblivion's abysmal lack of keyboard support was like a nagging little itch that drove me away from the game after a few hours, and then I'd let it sit on my hard drive for a few months before I got the urge for a good ES title.... only to rediscover how good the game could be, but also why I shelved the title in the first place. As far as disappointing games go, Oblivion is at the top of my list, not because I hate the game's content, but because the game drives me away before I even get to experience that content. Am not going to waste my time and spend both my money and sanity on another experience like that.

Still, another perspective is always welcome. If nothing else, I'm going to be digging a little deeper on the title before making a final determination. Thanks for the reply.

I'm very disappointed to hear that spellmaking did not make it into the game. I'm wondering, is it possible for a talented modder to add that into the game? Or would that be impossible for a modder to do?

The Hulk said:

I'm very disappointed to hear that spellmaking did not make it into the game. I'm wondering, is it possible for a talented modder to add that into the game? Or would that be impossible for a modder to do?

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I don't even have the game yet but off the top of my head can think of several ways of cludging it for certain, if slightly less than perfectly, using simple toolset stuff. To perfectly do it I need to see how spells are treated.

Since there is no spellmaker, are there leveled spells available or do you just get a spell like "fireball" and the higher your skill level in destruction the better the spell?

skavenhorde said:

Since there is no spellmaker, are there leveled spells available or do you just get a spell like "fireball" and the higher your skill level in destruction the better the spell?

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Yes...I haven't done a whole lot with spells yet...I run around with a lightning spell in one hand and a sword in the other. I have seen a skill to dual weild spells, allowing you to mix to spells together, not sure how well this will work yet.

I have hit two puzzles in 3 hours of play, which is 2 more then my whole play through of oblivion. And characters feel much more alive.