Foreshadowing of things to come: Article, "Are AAA games too long?"

Drithius

Magic & Loss
Joined
November 10, 2008
Messages
5,980
Location
Florida, USA
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
5,980
Location
Florida, USA
I think it's time we begun to accept that AAA-games aren't.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
6,027
Too long?

I have not problem playing a 100 hour games if the content is good and it allow me to save when I want.

I do have problem playing crappy games that have only 6 hours of content.
 
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
7,313
I'm surprised to hear this. A lot of people already complain about games being too short these days (of course many games of yesteryears were not particularly lengthy either).

A game needs to be lengthy enough to give the player a sense of it having been money well spent, but short enough as to not overstay its welcome. A game that is over in less than 5h is almost never lengthy enough to feel as if it was worth the money I payed for it (unless it was released as a low price game, like many of the episodic games).

There really should exist a market for both these easy and short pick up and play games (angry birds, plants vs zombies and so on) and the heavier games (like good CRPGs, or deep strategy games). After all, each market has a limited size.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2011
Messages
1,756
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
I'm surprised to hear this. A lot of people already complain about games being too short these days (of course many games of yesteryears were not particularly lengthy either).

A few more stories like this, some interviews with big studio types saying how they're going to save us all from these long slogs, and that'll change.
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Messages
1,147
Location
Madness
It depends which genre you're talking about. I don't have a problem with the length of most crpgs, except that some of them are a little too long imo.

Shooters on the other hand have become pathetically short when you compare them to similar games from 10-15 years ago.
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
39,395
Location
Florida, US
I find most CRPGs to be too long. I have no idea which are considered "AAA" though.

CRPGs are almost always stuffed with filler content so they can put marketing blurbs about how long it is on the box cover. It doesn't take 100 hours to read War and Peace. Why should some story about wizards and elves be 100 hours long? Is it a greater value that way? Not to me.
 
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
1,561
Location
Downtown Chicago, IL
I'm surprised to hear this. A lot of people already complain about games being too short these days (of course many games of yesteryears were not particularly lengthy either).

Yes, and even the gaming press complains about too short length !
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
21,964
Location
Old Europe
I rather have 10 hours of compressed content than 100 hours of emptiness really. The better RPG's have been long and filled over the edge with stuff, but there are also games that just have stuff that takes a lot of time that isn't really worthwhile. Achievementhunting in Assassin's Creed was a completely pointless filler for example.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
6,027
This is why I love sandbox games, if you want to play 10 hours, or 100, or 1000 it's up to you.

Let the user decide how long, and in what ways they want to interact with the game.

The Elder Scrolls games, Mount & Blade, Pirates 2, etc.

Personally I always get a little sad when I 'fall in love' with a RPG and have to stop playing because there's no more content. I think that's one reason why WoW appeals to so many, there's always something new to do.

I was recently playing Zangband again (so much fun) but when I hit lvl 100 I lost interest…I didn't want to…but there was no better gear to farm and I was level capped. For me it's always about enjoying the scenery while improving my character/party. That's an RPG. Deus Ex, Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines, etc. I just wish there was a single-player game out there that generated new content (writing, acting, artwork) within a sandbox framework. I know that's…prety much impossible…but what a great game it would be.

Edit: I just realised I was describing PnP gaming. It's interesting how, in the 80s, everyone wanted to get Dungeons and Dragons working on a computer. 30 years later and we still haven't quite done it.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
Messages
53
On the other hand, the article sounds a little bit like a "paid study" or an example of lobbyism towards "the gaming industry" - just because this "result" would be a pro towards more shorter and more casual gaming.

Shorter games with the same price = more profits.

Or, another possibility woulsd be this :

The shorter the games are, the more can be produced within the same amount of time - for less costs … More (yet smaller) games = more profits (as well) ?
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
21,964
Location
Old Europe
I agree, but I also think that if a CRPG only has 10h worth of content, it should not be a full price game

I remember dropping 60 hours in Forsaken Gods. I pity those who bought the collectors edition.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
6,027
This is why I love sandbox games, if you want to play 10 hours, or 100, or 1000 it's up to you.

Let the user decide how long, and in what ways they want to interact with the game.

The Elder Scrolls games, Mount & Blade, Pirates 2, etc.

Personally I always get a little sad when I 'fall in love' with a RPG and have to stop playing because there's no more content. I think that's one reason why WoW appeals to so many, there's always something new to do.

I was recently playing Zangband again (so much fun) but when I hit lvl 100 I lost interest…I didn't want to…but there was no better gear to farm and I was level capped. For me it's always about enjoying the scenery while improving my character/party. That's an RPG. Deus Ex, Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines, etc. I just wish there was a single-player game out there that generated new content (writing, acting, artwork) within a sandbox framework. I know that's…prety much impossible…but what a great game it would be.

Edit: I just realised I was describing PnP gaming. It's interesting how, in the 80s, everyone wanted to get Dungeons and Dragons working on a computer. 30 years later and we still haven't quite done it.

Sums up a lot of my viewpoints. I do love a good long RPG. Anything under 30 hours is just disappointing. Of course there has to be quality as well. But usually my favorites are those in the 40-80 range.

One reason I do enjoy MMO's is I can get many hours out of them, they tend to be dynamic in content (meaning patches, updates, expansions, always something going on) even if the world is more static in many ways. But you also have real people to chat with. Anyhow point being at least I can play for as long, or as little, as I want and usually find something to do.

I think each generation is just growing up with shorter and shorter attention spans when it comes to entertainment. Got nothing to prove that though - just a casual observation that could be totally inaccurate.
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
3,973
Location
NH
I think each generation is just growing up with shorter and shorter attention spans when it comes to entertainment. Got nothing to prove that though - just a casual observation that could be totally inaccurate.

I don't know, looking at many what many of the "older" people around me do, I can see that they prefer "simple" entertainment, the kind where you don't have to put much effort into it as much as the current younger generations. The difference for computer games is that they are reaching a wider and wider market, and thus has to appeal to more people.
During the 80's, most people who had an interest in computer games were also roughly in the same category of people as those who enjoyed complex wargames like ASL or roleplaying games (there were also the small time killers, like alley cat and other very simple games where the goal was simply to get a high score, but those served roughly the same purpose as free cell does). Console games held a "lower" standard, as far as the amount of effort & time you had to put into them went. During the early-mid 90's we started to see home computers really reaching a wider audience, it was no longer just a thing for the "geeks" and the people who had to work with computers, and thus games were becoming simpler. It is a matter of evolution really, games are evolving to become more accessible and easy to pick up and play for the common person, not just the person who is ready to spend hours upon hours learning how to play the game in question.
The interesting thing is that we don't really see a drop in popularity when it comes to other more effort consuming (from an intellectual point of view) things. Books like War & peace, crime & punishment, the people of Hemsö and other classics still appeal to the same basic type of people in the younger generations, and that one has not percentually shrunk.
And look at TV shows. Most shows from the 70's and 80's were just as "dumb" as those of today, just as simple and requiring just as little effort.

I don't really believe in the view that todays younger generations are having such a short attention span as some people might thing. It is just a matter of perception, when some of you were in highschool, you probably spent time with the "geeks", that was the reality that you experienced, but as an outside observer, the geeks would just have made up a small portion of the whole, probably a hardly noticeable portion. Of course, the term geek has become a lot wider, there are more types of geeks, and there seem to be more geeks in general, but the percentage of people who are willing to take the time & effort to really learn those more complex games are probably roughly the same, and the amount of people who never had the privilege to have the opportunity to develop a long attention span are also probably roughly the same.

And we are seeing a bit of a counter reaction to all of these "dumbed down" games. Small scale development of more complex games is going on. Rogue likes are making a return, and games like Minecraft & Dwarf fortress (two games that you have to spend a lot of time with to really get anything out of) are becoming huge hits.

And there is actually a company that has made quite a lot of money during the last 10 years making very complex strategy games, the kind that you really have to put some effort into. Just look at Paradox entertainment and their Europa Universalis style of games (Victoria: An empire under the sun in particular). So there is still a large enough market for complex games to warrant creating new ones.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2011
Messages
1,756
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
The length is not the issue. The ratio of:

the amount of time it takes to complete quality content/total amount of time the game takes to "finish"

is the issue. My problem is with padding and filler content, running around through empty maps, often known as a "timesink" in MMO parlance… That's the issue.

In an MMO, a timesink increases profits by keeping people involved for longer times, thereby having them renew subscriptions. CRPGs have too many of these timesinks, which are used as marketing ploys to sell the idea that the game is "more worth" the money you're paying for it. And again, you can scream "80+ hours of gameplay!!!" on the box or in your press releases.

But bad filler is bad filler. Would you get more enjoyment out of a $15 movie ticket if movies were simply padded out to 4-8 hours long? Would it somehow make it feel like you really got your money's worth?
 
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
1,561
Location
Downtown Chicago, IL
I prefer long games. If I like a game I dont want it to end. If by shorter they mean going to route of Hunted:DF ($50 for roughly 15hrs of game play) they can go stick it. Though the game play was fun, it was not very dynamic and the price was too high for what it was.
LB
 
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
60
Location
Texas
Another issue when it comes to length that I have to deal with today is the amount of time I have. I had plans to get through 10-20 games this summer and I am still playing Fallout New Vegas.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
6,027
I think each generation is just growing up with shorter and shorter attention spans when it comes to entertainment. Got nothing to prove that though - just a casual observation that could be totally inaccurate.

The *really* bad thing is, if this is not only limited to ntertainment …

Is the entertainment industry actually training whole generations to live "from the hand to the mouth", as we say here (it's a proverb) ?

And what does this mean for politics ? Are generations of politicians growing who know nothing else than short-sighted goals ?

Or, on the other hand, are some social classes refraining from this kind of entertainment so much that they can still think and act long-term, meanwhile a protelariat is growing up which is trained to think and act only in short terms ?
This would make it much, much easier to control them, then.






I'm always thinking big scale - trying to project developments into the future and into other areas.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
21,964
Location
Old Europe
Back
Top Bottom