Dragon Age: Inquisition - On Critics of Dorian

Gay characters should be uncontroversial at this moment me thinks.

I wont give any spoilers. But people who played Biowares games through know that there's at least one autistic npc who's revelation was one of the most powerful twists I have seen.

I wouldn't mind seeing a character who is suffering from borderline, but it would be tremendously difficult to pull it off I think.
 
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There are 100 million gay people worldwide at the very lowest estimate. It's likely twice that are higher, and that's not including bisexual people. Taking it all together it could be as high as 10%, 1 in ten people.

Playing the numbers game usually does not work well in the video game world: women are half of the world population, what about their presence in video games?
 
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Well I'll be honest i haven't followed the whole thing much, but from the few sites i read about Dorian, the main complained about Dorian wasn't him being gay.

It was the the cliched way a gay character was presented yet again, to which i would agree.
 
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I think my problem with this Bioware obsession is that it seems to be their number one priority - and gameplay, depth, quality of writing and so on are all of much lower priority.

If the games themselves were great, like the old Bioware games, I wouldn't mind them obsessing over everyone fucking everyone in the name of equality. Just as long as the characters and the writing supported it, that is.

Well the main problem with the obsession IMO is that none of the Bioware writers so far managed to put in a really believable homosexual character.

I think Bioware process goes like:
Let's make 9 characters 3 bi 3 gay 3 straight, then give them personalities so you can tell what orientation they have.

Instead of let's flesh out 9 characters then, if we got time, worry about who likes it which way.
 
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Well the main problem with the obsession IMO is that none of the Bioware writers so far managed to put in a really believable homosexual character.

I think Bioware process goes like:
Let's make 9 characters 3 bi 3 gay 3 straight, then give them personalities so you can tell what orientation they have.

Instead of let's flesh out 9 characters then, if we got time, worry about who likes it which way.

Yes, I agree - which is why I specifically mentioned quality writing as being a low priority. Well, that, or they simply suck at it.

Now, I admit to not paying too much attention to the sexuality of other people - and this goes for both real life and computer games. I also have a similar reaction as a gamer as a I do as a real person, which is negative if the nature of someone's sexuality is forced upon me as something I have to care about.

The thing is that I find it very, very mundane and completely incidental. The only time I care is when it's relevant to my own person, which is obviously if I'm into a girl. That's when her sexuality becomes relevant to me.

My experience with Bioware characters is that they're almost ALL in-your-face when it comes to their particular profile, and we're not just talking sexual preferences. If a person is an assassin, then it's shoved in your face that this person loves to kill - and we have to immediately get exposition about whatever justification these simpletons find for themselves.

There's very, very little in the way of subtlety and the grey area spectrum is hardly being used. When the grey areas ARE being navigated, it's without subtlety and there's this writing campaign within the game to make it apparent that it's oh-so grey, which means it's not grey at all. Grey isn't middle-ground bent in neon, it's simply reality - and the best way to present reality is to let the gamer make his own call without nauseating embellishment.

This is boring to me, and it's a huge turn-off. When the thing shoved into my face becomes something as trivial as the sexual preference of any given NPC, it's worse.

In the end, I simply don't care for Bioware's approach to writing at all - and their pathetic and banal way to push "sexual equality" is downright nauseating.

It's like they've never spent a day in their lives dealing with real people with real personalities, that happen to go FAR beyond their sexuality. Unless, of course, you happen to be a gay person who's made that sexual preference the key to your identity.

In which case I'd feel sorry for you for not having something more interesting at the core of your being.
 
BioWare characters are always full of intrigue and dark secrets that they'd never consider revealing to you...

...until you gain 2 more levels.
 
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I wouldn't mind seeing a character who is suffering from borderline, but it would be tremendously difficult to pull it off I think.
I certainly would! I have lived with a person with the Borderline Personality Disorder for 4 years and I NEVER, EVER want to go through something like this again. Not even in a computer game.
Besides, in the case of BPD, "borderline" is a terrible misnomer. There is nothing borderline about this disorder.
 
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Well the main problem with the obsession IMO is that none of the Bioware writers so far managed to put in a really believable homosexual character.

I think Bioware process goes like:
Let's make 9 characters 3 bi 3 gay 3 straight, then give them personalities so you can tell what orientation they have.

Instead of let's flesh out 9 characters then, if we got time, worry about who likes it which way.

The bold section is how they design the companions. They decide the sexual orientation after they defined the personalities and their appearance.

Also, romance is not more important to BioWare, it's some players/journalists who make a mountains out of a molehill. You can play through all their games without romancing anyone.
 
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Also, romance is not more important to BioWare, it's some players/journalists who make a mountains out of a molehill. You can play through all their games without romancing anyone.
If romances were as small a part of the game (or at least the PR for the game) as they should be, then you wouldn't be seeing news items like the one that prompted this newspost. It's not just the journalists/players making the mountain out of a molehill.

Romances & homosexuality are to BioWare, as real estate is to Shroud of the Avatar.
 
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If romances were as small a part of the game (or at least the PR for the game) as they should be, then you wouldn't be seeing news items like the one that prompted this newspost.
That's actually completely untrue. There were allways news stories about sex/sexuality/nudity in games which were either grossly exaggerated or a figment of author's imagination.
 
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Well, that may be true, but this particular newspost (along with every other BioWare romance related newspost I remember seeing on RPGWatch) is taken right off BioWare's website. So…

edit: Actually poor wording above. This one is from BioWare's website + David Gaider's Twitter, and some others may have been interviews with BioWare employees posted on other websites etc. But my point is all of this is coming from BioWare.
 
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Well, that may be true, but this particular newspost (along with every other BioWare romance related newspost I remember seeing on RPGWatch) is taken right off BioWare's website. So…

edit: Actually poor wording above. This one is from BioWare's website + David Gaider's Twitter, and some others may have been interviews with BioWare employees posted on other websites etc. But my point is all of this is coming from BioWare.

Actually, the article posted is exactly about people taking something and exaggerating its importance.

Dorian being gay get a tiny mention on his character profile interview. Everything else is journalist taking that tiny mention and exaggerating it and pestering David about it on his twitter.
 
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If you say so. I don't see it that way at all. First of all, BioWare effectively announced the character was gay on their website - so, yes, they did initiate it. Announcing the sexuality of game characters is a pretty odd thing to do to begin with, much less the bit about him being gay. What do you think they expected?
 
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Yes, I agree - which is why I specifically mentioned quality writing as being a low priority. Well, that, or they simply suck at it.

[snip]

My experience with Bioware characters is that they're almost ALL in-your-face when it comes to their particular profile, and we're not just talking sexual preferences. If a person is an assassin, then it's shoved in your face that this person loves to kill - and we have to immediately get exposition about whatever justification these simpletons find for themselves.

There's very, very little in the way of subtlety and the grey area spectrum is hardly being used. When the grey areas ARE being navigated, it's without subtlety and there's this writing campaign within the game to make it apparent that it's oh-so grey, which means it's not grey at all. Grey isn't middle-ground bent in neon, it's simply reality - and the best way to present reality is to let the gamer make his own call without nauseating embellishment.

[snap]

Subtlety is not their forte, agreed. The one example where you can compare this are the interrogation scenes in Dragon Age II and Witcher II. In the DA2 scene, Cassandra is almost hysterically aggressive and intimidating, like a bad NPC in a pen & paper RPG session or a third-rate police drama. In the Witcher II scene, Vernon Roche is very matter-of-fact, very controlled and very much an intelligent man dealing with another intelligent person. The threat of force is very much present, but as a last resort. But his first approach is trying to get Geralt to cooperate peacefully.

A friend of mine described it loosely like this: BioWare characters are very eager to tell you what they are, how they came to be that way, and what they want.

Referring to my forgetting Zevran the oily Latino bisexual elf assassin (if ever a stereotype walked on Thedas' soil...), that guy was practically megaphoning 'I wanna do it-do it' . You could almost imagine him doing the pelvic thrust...
 
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The bold section is how they design the companions. They decide the sexual orientation after they defined the personalities and their appearance.

Also, romance is not more important to BioWare, it's some players/journalists who make a mountains out of a molehill. You can play through all their games without romancing anyone.

Frankly i don't believe that, their hit rates on stereotypes lately are way too high.

The second part i would have believed a few years ago at DA1 and Mass Effect1, maybe Mass Effect 2, nowadays(Mass Effect 3 and DA2) it seems like it's the main part in their games.
I don't actually blame them so much for that after all they are catering to a good part of their audience.
I just wish they would do it in a more believable way.

DA:I has the obvious chance to prove me wrong but I'll stay pessimistic for now.
 
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If you say so. I don't see it that way at all. First of all, BioWare effectively announced the character was gay on their website - so, yes, they did initiate it. Announcing the sexuality of game characters is a pretty odd thing to do to begin with, much less the bit about him being gay. What do you think they expected?

BioWare didn't make a big news story about Dorian's sexuality, they simply mentioned it in his character profile. A feature that is supposed to tell you about the character. And they did expect controversy, David even mentioned in the character profile.

Funny enough, Sera got a bigger shitstorm on the official forums when she was announced lesbian, it just didn't make it to the mainstream news channel.

Frankly i don't believe that, their hit rates on stereotypes lately are way too high.

The second part i would have believed a few years ago at DA1 and Mass Effect1, maybe Mass Effect 2, nowadays(Mass Effect 3 and DA2) it seems like it's the main part in their games.
I don't actually blame them so much for that after all they are catering to a good part of their audience.
I just wish they would do it in a more believable way.

DA:I has the obvious chance to prove me wrong but I'll stay pessimistic for now.

What stereotypes has BioWare hit so much?

Also, I don't think you played ME3 or DA2 that much. The difference is quite small between romancing and not romancing a companion in both: some dialog get changed to reflect the status and there is a sex scene.

ME3 was piss poor in term of character interaction unless it was Liara or Cortez and the romance status had nothing to do with it.
 
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BioWare didn't make a big news story about Dorian's sexuality, they simply mentioned it in his character profile. A feature that is supposed to tell you about the character. And they did expect controversy, David even mentioned in the character profile.

Funny enough, Sera got a bigger shitstorm on the official forums when she was announced lesbian, it just didn't make it to the mainstream news channel.



What stereotypes has BioWare hit so much?

Also, I don't think you played ME3 or DA2 that much. The difference is quite small between romancing and not romancing a companion in both: some dialog get changed to reflect the status and there is a sex scene.

ME3 was piss poor in term of character interaction unless it was Liara or Cortez and the romance status had nothing to do with it.

For ME3 mostly the "softer or deeper" guys (Kaidan and Cortez) are gay, while the "tough" guys James IE. are straight.

Lesbians/Bi people like easy going casual sex (Game night in the shower......)
Zevran and Isabela in DA2 also fit the Bi people do everyone anytime anywhere trope.

Dorian now seems to be the paradise bird gay trope.

DArtagnan is probably right though most of the characters are fairly stereotyped i just focus too much on the romance part.

I played through them both once couldn't suffer more than that, DA2 while it's possible to play the game without any romance I always felt the main parts of the game suffered to get the Hawksexuality in.
Well that and the short development time.

For ME3 I personally i think the piss poor character interaction had alot to do with the fact that they were designing the characters personalities to appease their players.
Seeing how rabid some forumites over on the official forums can get over their chosen characters sexuality, as said i don't blame them so much.
 
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For ME3 I personally i think the piss poor character interaction had alot to do with the fact that they were designing the characters personalities to appease their players.
Seeing how rabid some forumites over on the official forums can get over their chosen characters sexuality, as said i don't blame them so much.

I personally think ME3 suffered of being a trilogy that re-used the same party members without first planning to do so in the first game. They is nothing new you could really learn about the old characters past the "catching-up" phase.

And the forums can be crazy for a lot more than characters. Never brings up the Elves and Chantry in a thread in the DA ones even if it's not related together. You'll get pages and pages of ranting about the Dales form 2 or 3 posters.
 
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The bold section is how they design the companions. They decide the sexual orientation after they defined the personalities and their appearance.

Also, romance is not more important to BioWare, it's some players/journalists who make a mountains out of a molehill. You can play through all their games without romancing anyone.

Have you played DA2 with Anders in your party?? He's in your face most of the time and almost forced upon player....
 
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