Wasteland 2 - Funding Finished, Over $3M Raised

big thread exactly on that here in case forum members are living under a rock



Is this 5% inXile's "kick it forward" campaign or do the kickstarter get a different 5%? Is kickstarter for-profit or non-profit?

Kickstarter collects a 5% commission on pledges. It is a for profit company; I imagine some might feel the amount they are ending up collecting is a ton for the amount of work they are doing, keep in mind that most of these projects would not be possible without the visibility and services it offers. Unlike many other means of raising funding, this model also offers unprecedented lack of "strings" attached to the funding and Kickstarter makes no claims of ownership over the intellectual product or project itself. It does however bar the later removal of anything posted after the completion of the project - creating a permanent record of both successes and failures which I suppose some might find inconvenient. Amazon payments (managing the collection and deposit of funding from pledges) also collects a seperate 3-5%.

The 5% "Kicking it forward" pledge only comes into play if the finished product ends up making a profit above and beyond development costs such as salaries, materials, publish fees, etc. This would not come out off the top of the pledge ammount; the only realistic way in which even a portion of a portion of the pledge ammount itself would be directly part of this would be if the developer chose not to or couldn't figure out how to spend all of it. For most projects then, this will mostly have to do with net profits on the sales of the finished product to non-backers (this could be quite significant in the case of a successful product as margains will be rather high in cases where the pledge ammount 100% coverd development costs.)

Let's consider Wasteland 2 as an example then.

$3.04 Million Raised
-$152,000 goes to Kickstarter itself as a comission
-$91,000 to $152,000 is taken as the Amazon Payments comission
--------------------------
Roughly 2.74 to 2.76 is actually deposited to inXile

Now lets take a stab at estimating an example of how kicking it forward would work. Estimating actual final profit (considering costs of ongoing support/post-launch patching and variable comission/markup for digital distribution routes) is a bit more guess-work. Let's go with a middle sounding estimate of 50% of initial post-launch price of $40 being profit and a very conservative low-end guess of 50,000 non-backers buying the game at this price. This would be about 2 million dollars in sales and 1 million dollars in proffit (margain per-copy is higher than normal because development costs are already pretty much paid in full.) For an optimistic guess, let's guess 250,000 in sales equivalent to initial price (ie, 400k over its lifetime but many copies discounted during steam sales and similar promos) for a total profit of

Low-end (I guess) selling 50k equivalent at initial launch price sales:
$1 million in profit
$50,000 is reinvested as pledges to other kickstarter projects

Optimistic 250k equivalent at initial launch price sales:
$5 million in profit
$250,000 reinvested as pledges to other kickstarter projects

Again, none of your pledge is going to go directly to other projects, just some of the fruit of the fruit of your pledge (a portion of their success in the open market post launch.) The way Brian Fargo has stated it, it sounds that he intends this profit to be determined on a per-project basis; this means that it will be profit from sales after paying all fees and costs associated with development and support but not on the year end profits from his company's balance sheet. This means it seems his intention is to kick it forward before reinvesting profits in other projects or dividends for himself and others.

Less genuine "kicking it forward" projects could conceivably kick it forward based on calculating profits after reinvesting net project profits back into their company - which means that the ammount could ultimately be entirely arbitrary. It is an honor system though and I would hope the most succesful projects at least do follow the spirit of the system.
 
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right - it wouldn't make sense for a non-profit to solicit for-profit companies. it would seriously limit the amount of interest.

so its 5% of pledges to kickstarter and Amazon takes another 3-5% of the full pledges - so 8-10% goes to kickstarter and their partner Amazon - paypal takes a percentage of every transaction, but so would any credit card company - but "kick it foward" is voluntary and takes 5% of the profit.

got it
 
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I managed to debate between pledge levels for so long that I failed to pledge at all. I'm really bummed. I wish they'd left the pledge levels on the paypal side for just a little longer so I could have rectified my failure. :(

That's too bad. I was only really interested in a couple digital copies of the game, so I pledged $15 on Kickstarter and $15 on Paypal. When they added another digital copy to the $30 package, I upped my Kickstarter pledge to $30. Now I will have three copies! I would have liked to have done more, unfortunately I don't have much money to spare at the moment.
 
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I'm so happy for Fargo & team, we did our bit, now they can do theirs. I wish them all the luck in the world and as many times as I've been burned in the past, I have a feeling they're going to deliver on W2.

Fargo's success and the success of others has convinced me to do a Kickstarter for Unfettered. I was reticent to do it until very recently but I think I have something every bit as good/better than *most* of the small indie projects being featured on Kickstarter right now.
 
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Looking forward to seeing what you have!
 
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That's too bad. I was only really interested in a couple digital copies of the game, so I pledged $15 on Kickstarter and $15 on Paypal. When they added another digital copy to the $30 package, I upped my Kickstarter pledge to $30. Now I will have three copies! I would have liked to have done more, unfortunately I don't have much money to spare at the moment.
Aye, I was debating between the $50 and the $100, even though money has been really tight lately. I was just really excited about this project so I figured I could, you know, cut back on food or something. ;) Anyways, spending that much was a really big deal to me so I kept dwelling on it and dwelling on it and, apparently, dwelled just a bit too much!
 
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Aye, I was debating between the $50 and the $100, even though money has been really tight lately. I was just really excited about this project so I figured I could, you know, cut back on food or something. ;) Anyways, spending that much was a really big deal to me so I kept dwelling on it and dwelling on it and, apparently, dwelled just a bit too much!

That is a real shame. Considering your intended pledges, I assume that you were interested in a physical boxed copy but I fear that they will only distribute the game digitally. But perhaps I am wrong.
 
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It's great that Wasteland 2 cracked $3M…
Isn't it amazing what an empty box of nostalgia is worth these days?

If a classic rpg that was only mildly successful (100K copies) can raise $3M for a sequel….
what could Richard Garriott raise for a new single player Ultima game? $10M?
I donated $250 for Wasteland 2, but I'd smash my piggy bank for an Ultima sequel. Yes, I know EA owns the Ultima brand, but Richard still owns a few trademarks, including Lord British… so to avoid costly licensing fees, it could be called Lord British Returns. :greengrin:
… or a prequel revolving around the future king's early adventures - Lord British: Origins
 
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It's great that Wasteland 2 cracked $3M…
Isn't it amazing what an empty box of nostalgia is worth these days?

If a classic rpg that was only mildly successful (100K copies) can raise $3M for a sequel….
what could Richard Garriott raise for a new single player Ultima game? $10M?
I donated $250 for Wasteland 2, but I'd smash my piggy bank for an Ultima sequel. Yes, I know EA owns the Ultima brand, but Richard still owns a few trademarks, including Lord British… so to avoid costly licensing fees, it could be called Lord British Returns. :greengrin:
… or maybe a prequel revolving around his early adventures - Lord British: Origins

Yeah but he's not interested in the kind of game you probably want - he's said he's not particularly interested in single player games and is focused on social and multiplayer games; in particular he is fascinated with games that leverage social networking and existing internet communities.

Now maybe some of the people from the old Ultima Underworld team and the guys who did Legend of Grimrock could work on a spiritual successor to Ultima Underworld... but unless it had facebook integration I don't think Lord British would be extremely interested in it really wouldn't bother me if he promised never to enter the same postal code as the dev team.
 
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That is a real shame. Considering your intended pledges, I assume that you were interested in a physical boxed copy but I fear that they will only distribute the game digitally. But perhaps I am wrong.
Yup, I like boxes! Actually, I quite liked all the rewards at those tiers. Ah well, no one to blame but myself.
 
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Yes, it's sad... Richard sold his heart and soul to EA... He's just an empty shell now who seeks fulfillment from social networking games.
 
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I do hope these projects and some upcoming ones are careful about truly considering the cost of fulfilling the rewards. In some cases projects end up spending upwards of half of their funding on prize fullfilment! While that's unlikely with multimillion game projects like Wasteland 2, it does suggest some of these groups should be cautious and more carefully calculate the cost of all the swag they offer.

Yes, it's sad… Richard sold his heart and soul to EA… He's just an empty shell now who seeks fulfillment from social networking games.

Haha well maybe, but I'm all for designers working on the projects they beleive in or have interest in. If his interests are centered around social gaming, then that's what he should work on. If you don't like the sort of social gaming he's worked with, imagine how much you'd hate something he worked on that did not really even hold his interest at all.

If you're looking for something inspired by Ultima though, Dhurin just announced this interesting little gem:

http://www.indiegogo.com/ashes-two-worlds-collide
 
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Excellent point jhwisner.

Out of curiosity, have you played through the original Wasteland? It was a bit before my time, so I am mostly supporting the project as a fan of the original Fallouts. Talking on the forums, it has come to my attention that party-based, according to the classic 80's, means you can finish the game with any party member, whether it is a PC or a NPC (who may not listen to your commands all the time). I am a big believer that character identification is important in a RPG, and am slightly concerned by this approach. I had assumed the game would start with you creating 4 rangers, with perhaps one serving as your main character (meaning if he dies you must reload). Then, like Baldur's Gate, you would meet NPC's that could join.

To me, this makes sense from a player's perspective. Your MC issues commands (by you telling the characters what to do), your other three created rangers always obey because they are loyal rangers, whereas NPC's are wildcards that may not. Even if there is no "leader" or main character, it can be assumed one of your created rangers acts in that capacity. However, it sounds like it may be possible to maintain a group of all NPC's. In that case, there is no character identification, it makes it seem like it is less of a role-playing game with strategy elements and more of a strategy game with RPG elements - and quite different from any RPG I have ever played. Do you have any thoughts or insights about this?
 
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Excellent point jhwisner.

Out of curiosity, have you played through the original Wasteland? It was a bit before my time, so I am mostly supporting the project as a fan of the original Fallouts. Talking on the forums, it has come to my attention that party-based, according to the classic 80's, means you can finish the game with any party member, whether it is a PC or a NPC (who may not listen to your commands all the time). I am a big believer that character identification is important in a RPG, and am slightly concerned by this approach. I had assumed the game would start with you creating 4 rangers, with perhaps one serving as your main character (meaning if he dies you must reload). Then, like Baldur's Gate, you would meet NPC's that could join.

To me, this makes sense from a player's perspective. Your MC issues commands (by you telling the characters what to do), your other three created rangers always obey because they are loyal rangers, whereas NPC's are wildcards that may not. Even if there is no "leader" or main character, it can be assumed one of your created rangers acts in that capacity. However, it sounds like it may be possible to maintain a group of all NPC's. In that case, there is no character identification, it makes it seem like it is less of a role-playing game with strategy elements and more of a strategy game with RPG elements - and quite different from any RPG I have ever played. Do you have any thoughts or insights about this?
In those games, multi-character meant exactly that. You were not a PC but a group (i.e. you could imagine yourself being one of them, but for gameplay sakes, you are a 'group').
I don't care if they take the approach of one character that recruits more or not, but I do not want the 'PC dies, game over'. For story and what not, sure, but for gameplay, you are basically a group.
And precisely that's why I liked those games much better than current games, the focus shifted from strategy/tactics to chatty-chatty click blue/red response.
 
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In those games, multi-character meant exactly that. You were not a PC but a group (i.e. you could imagine yourself being one of them, but for gameplay sakes, you are a 'group').
I don't care if they take the approach of one character that recruits more or not, but I do not want the 'PC dies, game over'. For story and what not, sure, but for gameplay, you are basically a group.
And precisely that's why I liked those games much better than current games, the focus shifted from strategy/tactics to chatty-chatty click blue/red response.

I see what you're saying. However, I like good dialog and having several ways to respond too, and think it's integral to have a good all-around RPG. I guess it doesn't matter to me if you have a main character so much or not, but it does seem like it would be somewhat important to keep at least one of your 4 PC's alive. Otherwise, nobody can be perceived as relaying your orders (as the player clicking on characters and providing commands) to the NPC's.

Anyway, I'm going to quit inquiring and just wait to see how it is handled. While I agree that a lot of modern RPG conventions have been bad for the genre, others have also helped advance the genre significantly. I hope inXile can sort out the good from the bad.
 
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