Pagan and Christian Holidays: The Discussion (Child of the Happy Yule thread)

No, that is a common expression which has been around for years!! What do you call it, a shovel or an implement for digging!!
 
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Depends on the part of the world you're in. Generally Americans stick to "shovel." Spade's common enough that my bro here and I caught the rougher meaning.

What do you think of the word 'wonk,' by the way?
 
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Not a word I'm familiar with. Is it related to 'wank' and 'wanker' which are common Aussie expressions of distaste?
 
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Oh, it's one of those words that's been derogatory for homosexual and for Asian people in the past, transformed to something akin to 'nerdy,' and is now enjoying some popularity as a positive word, as nerd/geek/etc. become positive.

Just trying to pick a word with rapidly shifting meanings as an example.

Anyway, spade's a reference both to colour and to manual labour performed by slaves.
 
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It's also a suit in a deck of cards; something else I've played with a lot!! :)
 
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Like a lot of the major religions what they say in the fine print and what is preached can be very different.

The priests of my old church would state, as if fact, he was born on the day of the xmas mass. I seen and heard it with my own eyes and ears plenty. However if approached and questioned (most but not all) they would begrudgingly relent that its doubtful he was.

I am not talking about what the pope says is the official stance, I am talking about what matters, how the local ministers or priests relay said teachings. So yes buried in the footnotes of the Vatican website it states it is not the factual date. However that does not mean a whole lot if what is preached is otherwise.

Basing your opinion on what ONE priest is not a valid what to back your claim up. I'm sure there are some priests/pastors/whatever that claim this. The vast majority and Church doctrine of all major sects does not however.

Also I have heard this on xian radio shows, tv shows and the like.

Link? I'm sure its on Youtube or whatever.

. I find it hard to believe you went to a service or mass during the holiday and never had them state the nativity story it as fact? Or heard it as fact via other methods?

Of course they stated it as fact, as it is fact to Christians. What they did NOT state as fact was that He was born on December 25th. They will say on the first Christmas, or Noel, when he was born, but they never say he was born on December 25th. In fact, they only say that we celebrate His birth on 'this day'. Not that he was born on 'this day'.

Now let me say I have not been to mass in 15+ yrs so things may have changed, if so great. But what I saw and heard it is as I stated above.

Then you either went to a very strange church, misunderstood, or just weren't listening.

I do not recall stating anything about the bible text except it is contradictory and been mistranslated. However if you want to get specific we can discuss the outright edits made to the king james version.

Yes, there have been changes in the translation, and there have been a few edits that I am aware of, but nothing of any real substance. Generally they are done simply to provide better clarity using the current language since translation itself is more art than science.


As for the council, true I was a bit to broad in my statement. But my point was there was more then one view of Jesus and many more books and 'bibles' floating around. And that was one of the steps by a group of men simply deciding what was cannon and what was not. Making my point the source of the book was influenced by men who had their own views they wanted put forth.

I am well aware of the non canonical Gospels out there, in fact I have read just about everyone that is available. Your point was completely wrong though. Just because there were other books doesn't mean they were widely accepted. With a few differences here and there (for instance prior to Nicaea The Shepard of Hermes was often considered canonical), but for most of the Christian world, the canonical list was fairly well in place well before Nicaea. Other sects still existed for sure, but by that point they were in the small minority.
 
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'Scuse the snipping.

You're just disgusting, I guess we're at an impasse.

And I think you are a rose colored pro-xian view of the world ignorant ass clown. So yes we are lets leave it at that. And before you call foul I was happy to discuss this however you started the personal attacks long before this post and I simply do not waste my time on such people. Saying the biblical jesus is fictional and the historical one is not is simply history, if you take such great offense at that then get over yourself and grow some thicker skin.
 
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And I think you are a rose colored pro-xian view of the world ignorant ass clown. So yes we are lets leave it at that. And before you call foul I was happy to discuss this however you started the personal attacks long before this post and I simply do not waste my time on such people. Saying the biblical jesus is fictional and the historical one is not is simply history, if you take such great offense at that then get over yourself and grow some thicker skin.

So are you a troll or do you actually have so little self awareness that you can't see that you come out of this debate looking like an exceptionally rude bigot?
 
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