Forum quality - counterpoint

ManWhoJaped

Keeper of the Watch
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First off I have posted on practically all these sites before, usually as bryce777 but also as other names sometimes, so if you don't recognize me well, I have posted here back before whatever it was that happened with all the various changes (I forget all the drama now), plus on all other sites as well.

If you look at the oldest sumerian writings, you will see complaints that the young generation does not worship the gods properly and is not serious about marriage. Likewise on websites the minute they exist some people are worried about their decline.

The truth of the matter is, it is quite futile and even insane to try to control the flow of discussion. I don't mean to have anarchy or no rules - if anything most forums have too few rules. What I mean is you can't treat people like little sims and instruct them on how you want things organized, what topics and tones are important, etc. It completely flabbergasts me to see people who think one liners are bad, or walls of text are bad - they are each appropriate for different purposes.

I know these ideas are well intentioned, but that is what ruins websites. It's like a form of political correctness added to everything you do which restrains the user. This is why codex is now unreadable crap - everything is bunched into a couple megathreads and there is absolutely no reason to dig through 90k pages of nonsense. A web site with good forum software is ALREADY very well organized - users get to create the threads THEY feel are important, and discuss them as they see fit.

Honestly there has NEVER been a huge difference in the real quality of posts between this site, RPG codex, or any of the other myriad sites. Only change I have seen is over time there's been more europeans and after that way more people from around the world, and way more 'mainstream'. To be honest I think this has dragged things down a bit across the board, as every teenager on earth has a high speed internet connection now. But no problems perceived here are anything to do with any other website, and nothing you can really control. It's like thinking you will bring back the 60s by putting on some groovy clothes if you think you have real control over it. If you go that route it will bejust like MMA where Rosh and 2 of his buddies say the same inane stuff over and over.

That said, rules are good. I swear sometimes but I don't mind a no swearing policy. Any sort of shock pics or post should bring a ban. Any person who never wants to talk about RPGs should be banned as well. As far as behavior like thread merging and duplicate threads, this is only really an issue on a very busy board, or when occasional certain people are simply spammers. The obvious solution is: just ban the spammer. Most of the whining I see REALLY comes down to they simply dislike individual people's opinions. In that case, they simply need to grow up. It's a big world, and in some parts men who don't use a condom are rapists and in others women taking their veils off are immediately beheaded. Same goes for likes and dislikes in a game and it's ridiculous to try to keep everything positive - everyone should be able to be negative on whatever game they like, or like whatever game they choose without accusations of trolling. Any "trolls" like this are very rare and easy to identify, if you have any doubt just ask me I can spot a troll 100 miles away.

Like most people I am in between the extremes but it always seems it's people at the extremes who are very concerned with the behavior of others, and even think the average user is somehow completely "wrong" in their opinions or they are actually trolls. Those are the people who completely ruin message boards because they are always very concerned about what everyone else is doing that they don't like, but don't take into consideration what is annoying to the ones they are persecuting or that they are the minority (sometimes totally insane) opinion. And this part does not apply here - no accusations but it's common elsewhere - they often attack others, then when they get hit back harder instead of admitting defeat or seeking resolution they turn to rules lawyering to get rid of people. Just like backstabbing coworkers in real life who work so hard to keep from actually doing their jobs.
 
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As rpgs are all subjective, better to be the banning power than anyone else.
 
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What do you mean, exactly?

Anyway, another point I forgot to mention is that people complaining about posts on the board is one of the most annoying things possible. Half the internet is idiots complaining that other idiots are spamming and it really degrades discussion. Especially since it's usually useless posters who feel the need to inanely point out the behavior of others. That is what complain button is for.

If you are not a mod then don't make matters worse! At best it's pointless, annoying spam. Often it leads to pointless flamewars, like with the MinorityReport guy. Most of the time it's just a couple people doing this all over the board anyway, and most people could care less. You come to a gaming board to discuss games, and maybe a little other stuff if it's not carried away - not to discuss other people or stir up drama.
 
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That, as RPGs are subjective, anyone can be declared as not writing about RPGs and be banned. Only people in charge of banning wont ban themselves on that ground.
 
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I don't think anyone in charge of banning, will ban themselves on any ground :)
 
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Actually, we're all in charge of banning ourselves - should we so desire :) I've done it more than once.
 
I don't think anyone in charge of banning, will ban themselves on any ground :)

So often, people in charge are obsessed with appearing as fair when they are not.

It could be staging a ban just to give the illusion: one guy in charge wants to quit because of real life situation, good opportunity to provide the illusion everyone is subjected to the same rules.
Instead of stating he quits, his banishment is made up to fit the banning criteria etc
 
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That, as RPGs are subjective, anyone can be declared as not writing about RPGs and be banned. Only people in charge of banning wont ban themselves on that ground.

I guess it's true you could decide you don't like someone and say they only post 50% about RPGs and use that as an excuse to ban them. However I really meant people who simply didn't come to discuss games at all (or whatever the topic of the board is). If you have a big political agenda for example, and barely post about games then obviously you should go.

I am not sure there are enough people here for it to be a huge issue.
 
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People could also post about games they consider RPGs but other people say the games are not RPGs (RPGs are all subjective) so they are banned.

As to people who post on everything but video games, they seldom come in the video games section.
 
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People could also post about games they consider RPGs but other people say the games are not RPGs (RPGs are all subjective) so they are banned.

As to people who post on everything but video games, they seldom come in the video games section.

I stumbled across a thread by crpgnut in 2012. You would all be banned, Couch included, for posting info about non-rpg. Of course crpgnut has calmed down a lot since that thread :)
 
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We rarely ban here other than for obvious bots. We try to be tolerant, especially if people don't break our rather simple rules based on respect for others. We always give at least one warning and I've had many PM discussions with posters who have received a warning from me in the P&R forum especially. If posters feel we're not being fair, we're happy to discuss it via PM rather than in the thread itself.
 
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We rarely ban here other than for obvious bots. We try to be tolerant, especially if people don't break our rather simple rules based on respect for others. We always give at least one warning and I've had many PM discussions with posters who have received a warning from me in the P&R forum especially. If posters feel we're not being fair, we're happy to discuss it via PM rather than in the thread itself.

Yeah, I actually think you guys are fair. I just don't want to see things change, and also I don't want it to be like on some boards *cough* you know what *cough* where all the discussion is about why people don't like some posters.
 
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That's why I will only discuss personal issues with a poster via PM. I won't clog up the threads with stuff which is irrelevant to anyone else. :)
 
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At EA, you're in charge of whether you are allowed to play your own games are not too.
 
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Yeah, I actually think you guys are fair. I just don't want to see things change, and also I don't want it to be like on some boards *cough* you know what *cough* where all the discussion is about why people don't like some posters.

That is an ace answer. After a comment requesting that people should be banned for not writing about RPGs, after the moderation self depicted as fair (as intended) and also tolerant; declared their way opaque with no possibility of public assessment, the affirmation that the moderation is fair (while everything is handled out of public eyes) and that nothing should change (even after calling for banishment of people for not writing on RPGs and after self depiction of tolerancy)...

Ace answer.
 
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That is an ace answer. After a comment requesting that people should be banned for not writing about RPGs, after the moderation self depicted as fair (as intended) and also tolerant; declared their way opaque with no possibility of public assessment, the affirmation that the moderation is fair (while everything is handled out of public eyes) and that nothing should change (even after calling for banishment of people for not writing on RPGs and after self depiction of tolerancy)…

Ace answer.

I didn't call for the banning of anyone. I called for the forum to not turn into the kind of place everyone is always whining about other posters and trying to get people they don't like banned.

That's why it says "counterpoint" because I am responding to the now locked thread with the silly "the forum is in decline!" meme which is pervasive on the internet since forums began.

I only gave those as examples of when it IS valid to ban people, not to ask for anyone to be banned. More importantly trying to control the tone of the whole board is a hopeless task that is only going to lead to an annoying place to visit. I say that because that's why most forums are irritating to visit, there's always a few people constantly trying to butt into other people's business or whiz all over every opinion they have and shout them down.

I realized over time I mostly just want to say my piece on whatever news pops up, then that's about it. People who've got a problem with whatever my opinion is can go take a hike.
 
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I like your discussions even if I disagree with them. It brings another perspective to consider. As long as everyone keeps their attacking to the idea and not the person they are usually such good conversations.
 
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A forum is always as good as what the people who post there bring to the table. Moderators have some influence in extreme cases, but they can mostly force form, not so much content. I post on forums with hardly any moderation to some that close a thread after the first hint of off-topic, or another one where you get a warning for wrong spelling and capitalization (originally a forum for a specific cRPG and not a good place for dyslexics ;)).

So I guess if there's a perception of loss of quality, you can only steer against it by making better posts - in an ideal world at least. But some people gradually lose interest in the main forum topic, or a user base gets that small that you already know the answer you will get by whom to any comment before you even read it. Which may be a good or a bad thing, according to personal taste.

So the reason I don't post here much anymore is mostly the number of users, and also to some extent that I don't post that much about cRPGs lately. As you may notice, that's not a quality statement.
 
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