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I'm a big Bethesda fan as well. Can't wait for Fallout 4. I just hope it retains the RPG-ness and isn't too streamlined. I do like lots of numbers, stats, dice-rolls, etc. in my RPGs. 
Fallout 4 - Base Customization @ Gamespot
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I'm a big Bethesda fan as well. Can't wait for Fallout 4. I just hope it retains the RPG-ness and isn't too streamlined. I do like lots of numbers, stats, dice-rolls, etc. in my RPGs.
I read somewhere that a few of the old S.P.E.C.I.A.L. skills will be turned into new perks. They didn't explain how it will work in pratical terms, so I'm not sure if this was confirmed or just an educated guess.
ChienAboyeur
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That is the point, reminding, and the reason why lightened versions are offered.
The demanding game offer, on the other hand, has never ceased, it targets young players and it is not socalled RPGs.
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zahratustra
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Yeah, people of our age with our ever falling brain power require something simplified. Handholding, on rails story, simple puzzles etc., etc., etc…
I demand incontinence nappies to be included in Collector's Editions!
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I never thought I would be taking ChienAboyeur's side, but I think that's not what he meant. My generation (I'm a bit younger than that, just 40, almost 41) started playing old-school games when old school wasn't old. And these gamers were teenagers by then, or at least they were very young adults. They weren't still workers, or at least, they were not still full time workers, had a lot of free time. In part that's why they still like what now is called old-school, it reminds them of their younger, carefree times. But most of them never get to finish any of those old school themed games, because work, wife, kids, pets, life... So I don't find something so strange in his post.
ChienAboyeur
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It was not my side. I have no side by the way. My comment was not even quoted.
As a matter of joke, this kind of confusion gives material for the braindead characterization.
It takes no side to notice that the offer of demanding games addresses younger players, not older players.
Older players might be interested in products that remind them of their younger days, it does not mean they cant afford those products to be demanding.
That players feel the urge to paint least demanding games as the most demanding games ever is another story.
Statements in this thread are not motivated by Fall Out 4 but by something else.
Bethesda do not simplify their game, they are dropping means that failed to achieve their purpose.
Calling simplification in this thread is out of place as it reports the most elaborated home feature Bethesda has provided so far in their similar games.
As a matter of joke, this kind of confusion gives material for the braindead characterization.
It takes no side to notice that the offer of demanding games addresses younger players, not older players.
Older players might be interested in products that remind them of their younger days, it does not mean they cant afford those products to be demanding.
That players feel the urge to paint least demanding games as the most demanding games ever is another story.
Statements in this thread are not motivated by Fall Out 4 but by something else.
Bethesda do not simplify their game, they are dropping means that failed to achieve their purpose.
Calling simplification in this thread is out of place as it reports the most elaborated home feature Bethesda has provided so far in their similar games.
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I think the thread deviated to simplification when I pointed out that I do not think there was any of the so called "dumbing down" in the more recent Fallout sequels (i.e. Bethesda's Fallout).
FPS combat is dumbed down, it depends on reflexes and not on thinking. It is also boring to do fights that come down to keeping one button pressed, it is not even challenging like in MP games. I played Counter Strike a lot and some other MP FPS games, I am not bad at it. It is just a stupid way to do RPGs. Stupid and boring. And it does not help that Bethesda games consist of 95% doing nothing (walking around and doing meaningless boring combat) and only 5% doing real content. In F1 and F2 it was more like 50%/50%.
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Why is it a stupid way to do an RPG like that? Because you believe that combat depends only on reflexes and no thinking at all? Well, my take on that is slightly different. I remeber having to stick to cover a lot at the beginning of both Fallout 3 and NV, and sometimes having to retreat and come back later (or die trying). Judiciously using stimpaks and doctor's bags to treat wounds or picking a drug to enhance endurance of improve the character's reflexes (not mine, the character's). Counting bullets and checking the weapons condition deciding if you should try your luck looting a corpse in search of ammo or better guns when you know there's a foe still around. All this requires some thinking, it's not the same thing as blindly shooting around in a true FPS. And if you really want to avoid the shooting part, most of the time you can use VATS - it's the closest thing to a die roll I've seen in a 1st person cRPG.
About doing nothing. Usually I call it exploring. Of course if you favour tactical games the open world of Fallout 3/NV is not for you. Neither is Risen, the Witcher or even Mass Effect or Dragon Age.
Is it boring? Well, it's boring for you, clearly. I find most tactical turn-based games to be as boring as watching paint dry, but that's just me (I like XCOM Enemy Unknow, though. I bet you don't like that one....)
And then just 5% real content. Hummm, this time is not just an opinion, it'a a fact. But it's not accurate. How could you know how much content there is in a couple of games you played so little? One hour in FO3? I spent about 80/ 90 hours on my first playthrough. New Vegas is bigger, so it took my more than 100 hours. Not just about 15... And Fallout 4, well about that we still do not know yet, right? Or have you played it already?
None of this is what I was talking about, as you don't do this during combat.
During combat you press one key for melee and wait until you die or when you need to use a stimpack and during ranged combat you strafe a bit if enemy is ranged and if melee you hold back and left mouse button until they are dead. No thought needed, no calculations needed and so on.
I recently watched CohhCarnage stream Fallout 1, Fallout 2 and now Fallout 3 all on hardest difficulty, and Fallout 3 is both super easy and super boring.
exploring in other games is much different. Witcher 1 and 2 had little pointless exploring, didn't play tw3. Mass Effect had very little exploring, mostly in ME1 and that got boring fast but you could ignore most of it and jumping around with Mako was at least fun. ME2 has super boring and grindy planet scanning and ME3 was OK. None had Bethesda level of pointless gameplay.
Dragon Age 1 and 2 had very little gameplay where you just explored in random directions without quests and anyways it was a party based game with tactical combat, not a snoozefest like Bethesda games.
Didn't play DAI, also read it has too much pointless Bethesda type gameplay to artificially ramp up gameplay hours.
Fallout 4 is going to the same, you can bet your life on it.
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Sorry, but I did all that during combat. Unless by combat you mean standing face to face with the enemy and banging him/her/it with a club. I didn't even use much melee weapons when playing Fallout 3 or NV. Not all combats are in open space, and even those that are, you can find cover behind rocks or buildings or brahmins... I meant combat as the sum of everything, not just the when you stand put.
So you don't like exploring... You can not do it, but I can tell that for some (myself included) some of the best moments playing an RPG were spent exploring - or not just exploring for the sake of it, but moving towards an objective, not knowing what lies ahead. In FO3 it happened in some of Moira's silly missions (her missions were silly, but getting to know the surroundings of Megaton wasn't). FO:NV was even more memorable for me - taking the road out of Goodsprings was a crucial moment in the game, and a lot happens along that road. But I'm sure you find it all boring.
Jumping with Mako was fun. And it was certainly more fun that what ME2 had, that shit was mind and hand numbing.
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zahratustra
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Ahhh so that's what RPG means to you? As long as you have to take cover, use some tactics, keep an eye on your healing supply and count your bullets you consider it an RPG?
"True FPS"? What are those "true FPS"? Because most of FPSes that I have seen use all of the tricks you named in the first part of your post!
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This is just a post among many others. One post where I was talking about combat. It was, in fact, a reply to something, which you can confirm. So, no, that's not what makes an RPG out of Bethesda's Fallout. It's what makes the combat less FPS than it was implied in Archangel's post. I think it was very obvious and that you understood it perfectly, but it was easy to take my words out of context, wasn't it? Clever guy!
I made a mistake there, I should I've said "brainless FPS for braindead people" because that's what it really was all about. Not all FPS are brainless, that's not the point, clearly most aren't. But sill, there's a few.
So it's my fault that people don't care to read previous posts and just shoot to kill every time they read something that's against their view of things? And then you crack jokes when I talk about "irrational hatred". If this isn't it, it's very close.