The Bureau: XCOM Declassified

mogwins said:

You are misinformed. E.g., http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2010/01/07/ps3-anti-aliasing-superior-to-high-end-pc-graphics/

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I'm pretty it's the author of that article who's misinformed. The title itself is laughable. I realize that article was written in 2010, but even back then the AA was far superior on a high-end graphics card.

I'm quite fond of my PS3, but if any of my games utilize AA, I'm hard pressed to see it.

Yeah, the title's silly, but the point was that the PS3 is capable of x16 AA. It's just that the processing power is better used elsewhere for what it gains you on an HDTV, so that's why most devs choose.

Sorry, I'm just a little tired of the PC gamer (and I'm one myself) moan of "this game would be better if it wasn't for consoles." I think what they need to ask is whether that game would even exist if it wasn't for the huge boom in game sales from consoles.

Still, The Bureau, eh?

mogwins said:

Sure. Though the Xbox is basically a PC (and both the Xbox One and PS4 are even closer still), plus most PC gamers now play with a 360 pad. So it's not even like there's a whole lot of porting to do. Not like the old days of custom chips and controllers…

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Not this PC player. I have one but I don't want to use it with every game. Just not doing it because your lazy, and saying it's a waste of resources is not acceptable.

Fact is programing keyboard and mouse support is not hard.

I agree the plus side of this generation of consoles is the compatibility, but I'm sure the developers still wont care about certain ports. That's the one thing I like about the new consoles.

I don't have a controller for my pc, and never plan to. I like the mouse, and anyone too lazy to program a game to utilize it is risking losing money these days, imo. Certainly from me and most of the people I know.


-Carn

mogwins said:

silly PC elitism.

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mogwins said:

Sorry, I'm just a little tired of the PC gamer (and I'm one myself) moan of "this game would be better if it wasn't for consoles."

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No. Bad port is a bad port. It''s not about "elitism" of any kind but about lazyness of game devs or publisher's refusal to fund a proper port.

I don't know if The Bureau is a "bad" port, but the aliasing has more to do with it using the Unreal 3 engine. Pretty much every U3 engine game I've played has suffered from the same issue.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on a second chaps (I'm guessing you're all chaps). There's more than a little straw man construction going on here.

While I mentioned 360 controllers, nowhere did I say gamepads should be the exclusive control method and certainly not for "every game." There are hardly any games which are controller-only, and yes, agreed, those have been extremely lazy ports (I can only think of Castlevania, but I'm sure there's a few others).

[As an aside: Carn - by deciding to "never get a pad," you're really missing out. You wouldn't be betraying PC gaming by dabbling in such things, it's just a superior control method for some types of games (e.g., Dark Souls). Change is not always bad. e.g., I'm glad I'm no longer having to make boot discs to free up extended RAM.]

Also let's correct something: The Bureau is not a console port. It was released on PC, PS3 and 360 simultaneously, that means it was developed for all three platforms in parallel, so the complaints being levelled at it here are the result of flat-out bad development. A "console port" is a game developed solely for the consoles that is later "ported" across to the PC. Dark Souls was a console port. And a bad one, though it's a terrific game.

Now, I do agree there's a point to be made about the existence of consoles influencing PC game design. But that's a different matter altogether. And would have no bearing at all on something technical like anti aliasing!

As you were.

mogwins said:

Also let's correct something: The Bureau is not a console port. It was released on PC, PS3 and 360 simultaneously, that means it was developed for all three platforms in parallel

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Well.. yes and no. They may have been in development simultaneously, but there is usually a "lead" platform when developing cross-platform titles, and it's normally one of the consoles for the majority of AAA games.

Yes. See my point below the one you quoted. Although that's still not a "console port."

That doesn't mean they were developed "in parallel" though either.

So you're saying they finished the PS3/360 version, then sat on it for 6 months while they ported it across to the PC? Because otherwise, they were developing PC and console games "at the same time," which is what "in parallel" means in this context.

Even if that was the case (it wasn't), the PC version was part of their design decisions from day one, which is vastly different to PC gaming being retrofitted as an afterthought (see: Dark Souls, Castlevania).

Now, the lead platform thing is a genuine issue, I agree. And that does make a difference. But you're creating arguments where there are none - I don't have to be wrong for you to be right.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. You're talking as if you know exactly how they developed it.. which you obviously don't.

The reason there's a lead platform is because most publishers aren't going to pay three separate development teams to create a dedicated version for each platform.

You seem to think that for something to be considered a port it has to come later and after the other version is completely finished. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, but that's not the case. They might be working on three versions, but one is going to be slightly ahead of the others which is why it's called the lead platform. That work is then ported to the other platforms throughout the process.

Skyrim for example was developed that way, and it was referred to as "porting" by the lead producer. All three versions were released on the same day.

Don't take my word for it though. http://segmentnext.com/2011/06/10/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-consoles-are-lead-platform/

Now what does any of this have to do with The Bureau? Nothing. I don't even know what the lead platform was for it. But I wasn't the one blaming the issues on it being a port to begin with.

JDR13 said:

I'm sorry, but you are wrong.

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Sigh. You know adult discussion is not about "winning," right?

JDR13 said:

You're talking as if you know exactly how they developed it.. which you obviously don't.

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I'm not sure I am? I wasn't intending to. But regardless, would you like to give your source of info for the PC not being the primary platform? It might not have been (I've not claimed either way), but you seem to know.

JDR13 said:

You seem to think that for something to be considered a port it has to come later and after the other version is completely finished. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

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Um, wikipedia, for instance: "A (Console) port is a game that was originally made for a console (such as Wii or Xbox 360) before an identical version is created which can be played on a personal computer or any other console." [Emphasis is mine] Although it's all just semantics to some regards. I'm just trying to point out that there's a big difference between a PC version being touted from the outset and being tacked on as an afterthought. Which one you call porting is a moot point, but I was pointing out that The Bureau is the former, not the latter (quite where Skyrim comes into this, I have no idea).

The real issue is that trying to blame consoles for poor PC games is silly (which was not you, no. It was Joxer, the scamp!). I just don't get the "us" and "them" mentality of console and PC gaming. We're all just gamers.

Come on, give me a big hug. Hey, no tongues!

mogwins said:

I'm not sure I am? I wasn't intending to. But regardless, would you like to give your source of info for the PC not being the primary platform? It might not have been (I've not claimed either way), but you seem to know.

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JDR13 said:

Now what does any of this have to do with The Bureau? Nothing. I don't even know what the lead platform was for it. But I wasn't the one blaming the issues on it being a port to begin with.

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In the future, read the entire post before replying. That way you won't look foolish.


As for the rest, it's nothing but semantics. You can choose to believe what you wish, but I think I'll take the word of someone who actually works in the industry. If they're going to refer to it as "porting" then there's a reason for it. Obviously not all ports are equal, and it doesn't mean it's going to be sub-par, etc.

I don't think there's really anything left to say on this topic though. Unless Joxer has something to add.

Cor, you're more grumpy and stubborn than my 2-year old. Do you need a nap?

Actually it's me who's grumpy, stubborn and needs a nap. And it's definetly connected to the age - I'm one foot in the grave.

I don't believe it! (In my best Victor Meldrew voice.)