Kingdoms of Amalur: Tedium?

JDR13 said:

I don't know how many long-time crpg players would agree with you on that, but I'm glad you enjoyed the game.

I'm not going to waste time with any long-winded responses here because I think it's obvious we're not going to agree on much concerning this game.

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I don't care if we agree or not, I'm just trying to understand what some of you have against this game is all. Not to pick on your or anything, but to call Reckoning "the epitome of average" is insane to me. I have played now for 40 hours and haven't encountered anything average yet. Maybe a few quests were average. I'll give you that. The rest has been exceptional and of the highest quality. And most importantly; shitloads of FUN.

And you still haven't told me how long you have played in order to come to that conclusion. Have you been to the Gardens of Ysa? Have you completed the House of Ballads questline? Have you talked to all the NPCs and thoroughly explored the lore?

How about we start easy; have you played longer than the 45 minutes of the demo? Have you played the game at all?!

And as an aside; if "long-time crpg players" don't agree with me, so what? Most long-time crpg players on the internet are a fickle bunch that would rather complain about games instead of play them. Same story everywhere on the internet really.

Anyway...if this game was set in the Mass Effect universe or some other established IP's universe it would have gotten 10 out of 10s from every reviewer out there. Because it's the new kid on the block, it gets shit on. Not the first time this has happened and it won't be the last.

Fluent said:

And as an aside; if "long-time crpg players" don't agree with me, so what? Most long-time crpg players on the internet are a fickle bunch that would rather complain about games instead of play them. Same story everywhere on the internet really.

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I think real CRPG players are just tired of action heavy games being passed off as the new RPG standard. Fickle hardly describes a group of individuals whose tastes have remained static...

KoA may be a good game, but from what I have seen, it is not a good RPG.

Anyway…if this game was set in the Mass Effect universe or some other established IP's universe it would have gotten 10 out of 10s from every reviewer out there. Because it's the new kid on the block, it gets shit on. Not the first time this has happened and it won't be the last.

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^ That may have some bearing on an argument against current number based rating systems. However, it doesn't change the fact that ME is an action driven RPG-lite game which would likely seem out of place amongst purists.

Based on my 31 hours, 5 min and 39 seconds with the game according to my savegame, I would have to say average is KOA at it's best.

Art style: First off, I hate the art style. I like realistic settings. As much as @fluent can't understand people not liking the art style I can't believe that people do like it. They might as well have put it in the Wiley coyote and road runner setting , I keep waiting for something to speed up behind me and say beep, beep.I agree though that gameplay trumps graphics so I purchased it anyway.

Lore: While I don't hate it as much as the art style the faerie lore is boring and I just don't care about it. I started out listening to everything now I only select the blue responses and get out of conversation as quick as possible. I find it hard to remember the name of people and places because they aren't made of normal words. Places like haxhi or sidhe, instead of stuff like whiterun or solitude.

World exploration: While the maps look huge all of the area's joined together by bottlenecks can be traversed very quickly. I'd say you could cross an entire KOA area in the same time as you could walk around just soltiude in skyrim. The world it's self feels static. The same monsters wait in the same places all the time then respawn back to the same places after you kill them. See a bandit doing push ups, kill him, only to comeback later and see the same bandit doing push ups around the same crate you already busted earlier. I can't remember running into anyone or anything that wanders. Everyone has their place and will stay there. At no time do I feel like i'm in a real living and breathing world As for exploration I haven't really found anything just exploring. Everything worthwhile has been during or at the end of a quest.

Combat: Combat is undeniable fun but unfortunately broken. I play on hard and at this point I don't have to use any skills to kill things. If I get the first hit in I can keep clicking until they are dead. Hits are done in combo's if you hit them once you can perform a 6-7 hit combo with no fear of them stopping your attacks. Same goes for enemies except they usually stop hitting you after 3 hits or so. You can't use a traditional sword and shield setup, a giant shield just magically appears if you press block. Archery is just a matter of switching to your bow and pressing the button. It auto aims and when you run out of arrows you have to wait for them to magically recharge. For these reasons I abandoned archery and shield very early on. Then there is reckoning mode I haven't encountered a monster yet that can stand up to reckoning mode. They should just have had all the monsters instantly die when I enter the mode to save me the tedium of killing the slow motion cartoon monsters. There is fun to be had with the skills but sadly you don't need to use them.

Quests: quest are ok. They run the normal gamete that other games have. Nothing special. I've heard that the house of ballads is a great quest line. I stopped doing it probably midway through though. Got bored playing parts in songs. Maybe that had more to do with the faerie lore though than the quest it's self I don't know.

Enchanting: makes you way to powerful so I don't use it. (skyrim has the same problem though).

Alchemy: I love alchemy in most games so I started in right away. After about 5 hours in though I stopped. Combat is so easy that potions are irrelevant and it's a pain putting them on the wheel all the time. Tedious menu's for m&k setup.

Conclusion: I play most of my rpg's multiple times or at the very least restart several times. (some don't like this, I do.) I Can honestly say that I will never restart or replay KOA. There's just not anything that really interests me enough to play through it again. I'm struggling as it is at the 30 hour mark to continue. I have 187 in to skyrim and am still interested and finding new, cool things. ( headless horseman, anyone?)

I talk about games all the time with family and friend and KOA just rarely evr comes up and when I ask people about it. The usual response it eh, it's ok.

To me this all adds up to an average game, which really shouldn't be an insult to KOA. It's their first game if they work on somethings it could get much better. It's surprisingly stable, if they add real sword and shield and archery and Balance the combat. That alone would go a long ways. Since they have 10,000 years of lore , I guess i'm stuck with that and the terrible art direction though.

sakichop said:

I find it hard to remember the name of people and places because they aren't made of normal words. Places like haxhi or sidhe, instead of stuff like whiterun or solitude.

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I have no idea about the game, but I still wanted to add that "sidhe" is a normal word. From the name I would assume it is a place where the faeries/elves live or celebrate.

sakichop said:

Based on my 31 hours, 5 min and 39 seconds with the game according to my savegame, I would have to say average is KOA at it's best.

Nice. That is a good chunk of time to have spent with the game to realize if you liked it or not. Not saying others haven't spent that kind of time, but at least you have.

Art style: First off, I hate the art style. I like realistic settings. As much as @fluent can't understand people not liking the art style I can't believe that people do like it. They might as well have put it in the Wiley coyote and road runner setting , I keep waiting for something to speed up behind me and say beep, beep.I agree though that gameplay trumps graphics so I purchased it anyway.

You've been to the Gardens of Ysa I presume? If you have been there and still don't like the art style, I honestly don't know what to tell you. That place is one of the most beautiful and vibrant cities I've ever seen in any RPG, ever. But okay, art style is subjective. At least you can look past graphics and dig into the gameplay.

Lore: While I don't hate it as much as the art style the faerie lore is boring and I just don't care about it. I started out listening to everything now I only select the blue responses and get out of conversation as quick as possible. I find it hard to remember the name of people and places because they aren't made of normal words. Places like haxhi or sidhe, instead of stuff like whiterun or solitude.

Well they are Fae places, and Fae aren't mortals, so at least it makes sense in the game's lore why they are named what they are. I don't find the lore boring at all though. I think it's one of the best aspects of the game.

World exploration: While the maps look huge all of the area's joined together by bottlenecks can be traversed very quickly. I'd say you could cross an entire KOA area in the same time as you could walk around just soltiude in skyrim. The world it's self feels static. The same monsters wait in the same places all the time then respawn back to the same places after you kill them. See a bandit doing push ups, kill him, only to comeback later and see the same bandit doing push ups around the same crate you already busted earlier. I can't remember running into anyone or anything that wanders. Everyone has their place and will stay there. At no time do I feel like i'm in a real living and breathing world As for exploration I haven't really found anything just exploring. Everything worthwhile has been during or at the end of a quest.

I'll give you one thing here; dungeons don't really have anything unless you're on a quest. That's both good and bad. Good because it saves me the time of dungeon diving since I know there probably won't be anything epic to be found. Bad because I can't just randomly pick a dungeon and find something epic. However, there is always the chance that you can randomly clear a dungeon and find epic loot just by your standard kill-and-loot mechanisms. So it's really not that bad.

As for the rest, I say; big deal. So no one wanders. Up until Skyrim most NPCs were static in RPGs. Skyrim has a few wanderers but not many. Enemies respawning in the same place is fine to me. Maybe there is some reason they want to be there, like it's a good place to ambush someone, or a good place to stalk prey, etc. I see no problem with that. And I haven't been through the same zone enough for a respawning enemy in the same place to even remotely becoming annoying. It's extremely minor to me.

And the world is absolutely huge. Massive. Sure it's connected by corridors and choke points, but overall it's huge, especially if you take the time to explore each zone fully. I've spent 40 hours exploring the first region and haven't even stepped foot into the 2nd region. And there's 5 major regions. Massive.

Combat: Combat is undeniable fun but unfortunately broken. I play on hard and at this point I don't have to use any skills to kill things. If I get the first hit in I can keep clicking until they are dead. Hits are done in combo's if you hit them once you can perform a 6-7 hit combo with no fear of them stopping your attacks. Same goes for enemies except they usually stop hitting you after 3 hits or so. You can't use a traditional sword and shield setup, a giant shield just magically appears if you press block. Archery is just a matter of switching to your bow and pressing the button. It auto aims and when you run out of arrows you have to wait for them to magically recharge. For these reasons I abandoned archery and shield very early on. Then there is reckoning mode I haven't encountered a monster yet that can stand up to reckoning mode. They should just have had all the monsters instantly die when I enter the mode to save me the tedium of killing the slow motion cartoon monsters. There is fun to be had with the skills but sadly you don't need to use them.

Summary: Combat is too easy. Fine, I won't argue that. I play on Hard too, and I admit it's pretty easy. But they are looking to fix that via a patch that has been confirmed by Curt Schilling. Skyrim wasn't exactly back-breakingly hard either, nor was any other RPG of recent memory. Why is KoA considered average because it's not that hard? I'm still having tons of fun with the game regardless of it being pretty easy.

Quests: quest are ok. They run the normal gamete that other games have. Nothing special. I've heard that the house of ballads is a great quest line. I stopped doing it probably midway through though. Got bored playing parts in songs. Maybe that had more to do with the faerie lore though than the quest it's self I don't know.

Well it seems like you get bored easily then. House of Ballads was indeed great, you should have finished it. But yeah, quests for the most part are your standard RPG fare. But quite a few in my experience have been good and memorable. But they aren't rewriting the book for RPGs with their quests either. But guess what, neither is Skyrim, or Divinity 2, or any other RPG with quests. They are always the same, because that's what quests are. They are something small to do that's not your main story of the game. A small diversion. Nothing more and nothing less.

Enchanting: makes you way to powerful so I don't use it. (skyrim has the same problem though).

I have no problem using enchanting. The game is already easy but it's still fun doing it.

Alchemy: I love alchemy in most games so I started in right away. After about 5 hours in though I stopped. Combat is so easy that potions are irrelevant and it's a pain putting them on the wheel all the time. Tedious menu's for m&k setup.

Alchemy in all RPGs becomes meaningless, because in all RPGs you either get enough money to be able to afford as many potions as you want, or potions drop frequently enough that you don't need to worry about them. Skyrim was the same way, even worse than KoA in this regard. But still, for awhile I harvested ingredients to make health potions. I still reserve the thought of using it when I need to. I also still use potions when I'm fighting tough fights.

Conclusion: I play most of my rpg's multiple times or at the very least restart several times. (some don't like this, I do.) I Can honestly say that I will never restart or replay KOA. There's just not anything that really interests me enough to play through it again. I'm struggling as it is at the 30 hour mark to continue. I have 187 in to skyrim and am still interested and finding new, cool things. ( headless horseman, anyone?)

I have 150 hours in Skyrim and have loved every minute. Only time will tell if I spend that much time with Reckoning. But the outlook right now is very good.

I talk about games all the time with family and friend and KOA just rarely evr comes up and when I ask people about it. The usual response it eh, it's ok.

To me this all adds up to an average game, which really shouldn't be an insult to KOA. It's their first game if they work on somethings it could get much better. It's surprisingly stable, if they add real sword and shield and archery and Balance the combat. That alone would go a long ways. Since they have 10,000 years of lore , I guess i'm stuck with that and the terrible art direction though.

The shield kind of sucks because it pops out of nowhere. That was a gripe of mine too. But I wouldn't say the game is average because of it. I don't use a shield now, only rarely do I actually block. I can get by mostly just rolling around, which is another difficulty issue. I'm all with you for making the combat harder. Hopefully this patch that comes out fixes that. But if not, I'm still loving Reckoning regardless.

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Now I guess I'll talk about why I think Reckoning is exceptional and not simply average.

The dialog. This is my favorite aspect of the game. You can talk to many different NPCS about many different things. I thought Skyrim had a lot of dialog, well, Reckoning may have even more than Skyrim does. It is massive amounts of dialog that in my opinion is mostly all interesting and cool. I love talking to every NPC I can find because of it.

The lore. It's great. It's cool that there are 4 unique mortal races, then you throw in immortal races like the Fae, and then a 5th mortal race in the gnomes, and all the races have their own history and lore. Even weapons and sets of armor in the game have their own lore. Pick up a hammer that was once used by a legendary Ettin Warpriest who took it to war with him. You find stuff like that all the time. There's so much lore for lore-nerds to dig into in this game. As someone who's heavy into lore, I love this aspect of Reckoning.

The combat. While it is generally pretty easy, it's still a ton of fun killing things. I look forward to every fight in the game because of how fluid and responsive the combat controls are.

The loot. Gems, shards, epic gems, blacksmithing components; not to mention your standard armor and weapons. Tons of handmade unique items. Tons of sets of armor. 9 different types of weapons that drop. The loot is awesome. It's as good as Diablo or Sacred 2 or any of those types of games. What makes Reckoning awesome is not only does it have Diablo's loot, but it has the questing and story and lore and all those good bits of the hardcore RPGs too. It's the best of all worlds.

The story. Top notch story so far. Interesting characters and a plot and premise that I genuinely want to see what happens next. It's just as good as any RPG's story before it, if not better.

And the whole atmosphere and immersion of the game. It's like playing an interactive fantasy novel. It's just magical. That sounds corny but it's true. It's a very magical fantasy world. They completely captured the charm and magic of a fantasy novel with this game.

I could go on and on. I'll stop here. These are simply the reasons I think Reckoning is much better than an average game. I guess to each their own.

Turjan said:

I have no idea about the game, but I still wanted to add that "sidhe" is a normal word. From the name I would assume it is a place where the faeries/elves live or celebrate.

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Yes i'm sure if I googled them all, they would probably be real words. As I'm not a faerie or elf i've never used that word and I would assume neither have most. Again I didn't like the faerie lore.

sakichop said:

Yes i'm sure if I googled them all, they would probably be real words. As I'm not a faerie or elf i've never used that word and I would assume neither have most. Again I didn't like the faerie lore.

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I guess you are not Irish or Scottish, either, as that's where the word comes from. It's pretty common in literature or games.

Fluent said:

Now I guess I'll talk about why I think Reckoning is exceptional and not simply average.

The dialog. This is my favorite aspect of the game. You can talk to many different NPCS about many different things. I thought Skyrim had a lot of dialog, well, Reckoning may have even more than Skyrim does. It is massive amounts of dialog that in my opinion is mostly all interesting and cool. I love talking to every NPC I can find because of it.

The lore. It's great. It's cool that there are 4 unique mortal races, then you throw in immortal races like the Fae, and then a 5th mortal race in the gnomes, and all the races have their own history and lore. Even weapons and sets of armor in the game have their own lore. Pick up a hammer that was once used by a legendary Ettin Warpriest who took it to war with him. You find stuff like that all the time. There's so much lore for lore-nerds to dig into in this game. As someone who's heavy into lore, I love this aspect of Reckoning.

The combat. While it is generally pretty easy, it's still a ton of fun killing things. I look forward to every fight in the game because of how fluid and responsive the combat controls are.

The loot. Gems, shards, epic gems, blacksmithing components; not to mention your standard armor and weapons. Tons of handmade unique items. Tons of sets of armor. 9 different types of weapons that drop. The loot is awesome. It's as good as Diablo or Sacred 2 or any of those types of games. What makes Reckoning awesome is not only does it have Diablo's loot, but it has the questing and story and lore and all those good bits of the hardcore RPGs too. It's the best of all worlds.

The story. Top notch story so far. Interesting characters and a plot and premise that I genuinely want to see what happens next. It's just as good as any RPG's story before it, if not better.

And the whole atmosphere and immersion of the game. It's like playing an interactive fantasy novel. It's just magical. That sounds corny but it's true. It's a very magical fantasy world. They completely captured the charm and magic of a fantasy novel with this game.

I could go on and on. I'll stop here. These are simply the reasons I think Reckoning is much better than an average game. I guess to each their own.

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You obviously like the lore and setting a lot which will go a long way in to determining whether the game is great for you or just ok. I didn't so I found it just ok.

Again though, finding it to be average in no way means I think it's bad. It's just not grabbing me the way it is you. I hope they do release some patches to fix the balancing issues. They also have some dlc coming so i'll have to see how that works out.

I'm in no way giving up on KOA. I'm in a wait and see phase right now. I do hope they do well. It was their first game after all and i'd like to see what they can do in the future. for me though as it stands KOA is not a home run it's more like a double.

Fluent said:

I don't care if we agree or not, I'm just trying to understand what some of you have against this game is all. Not to pick on your or anything, but to call Reckoning "the epitome of average" is insane to me. I have played now for 40 hours and haven't encountered anything average yet. Maybe a few quests were average. I'll give you that. The rest has been exceptional and of the highest quality. And most importantly; shitloads of FUN.

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You really need to take off the fan glasses and just accept that a lot of people aren't digging KoA as much as you are.

Sometimes a game just clicks with some people while it doesn't with others. You need to accept that and just move on, instead of trying to argue every single point with the people who don't view KoA the same way as you. The funny thing is that no one here is bashing it, but you're reacting as if they are simply because they're not enjoying it as much as you.

As far as how long I've played it, I can tell you I've played more than enough to grasp the game mechanics and get familiar with the art style, loot system, and atmosphere. Enough to see that it isn't for me.

MasterKromm said:

I think real CRPG players are just tired of action heavy games being passed off as the new RPG standard. Fickle hardly describes a group of individuals whose tastes have remained static…

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I tend to agree. The industry is "forcing" a kind of a new "industry standard" down our throats, and that "industry standard" is of course based on Action-RPGs and everything they (the industry) believe are "RPG-ish". In short : Everything hat sells has has some remote connections to playing a "role".

And of course, the newer gaming generations already embraced that. For them, an RPG is what Blizzard did.
And *not* what *we* consider an RPG. (And especially not what lovers of old school RPGs consider to be an RPG.)

In my theory, the industry has trained the newer gamer generations to like what they have published.

sakichop said:

I find it hard to remember the name of people and places because they aren't made of normal words. Places like haxhi or sidhe, instead of stuff like whiterun or solitude.

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That's how I have felt with the latest HOMM demo.

Turjan said:

I have no idea about the game, but I still wanted to add that "sidhe" is a normal word. From the name I would assume it is a place where the faeries/elves live or celebrate.

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I think you both are right, but : How would you react if a game was exclusively using Mayan names, or Aztecan names, for example ? Or Walisian names ? Okay, this example is a bit extreme, but what I want to say is this : Words one considers as "normal" also depend from the cultural background of a person.

Personally, for example, I know the word "sidhe" only from "Siddharta", for example, that sounds similar.

I was wondering if Fluent works for 38 Studios There is no way a long-time crpg player should find Reckoning anything more than average. While it is fairly entertaining until you get all the skills, it becomes a snooze fest soon after. I can play on hard, with zero points in might or finesse and still win battles with just melee. The game is broken. Dialogue? It's a complete joke.

Still, it is nice that there is at least one champion for this pale attempt at a deep crpg. Fluent, you're not alone. Rune_74 loves almost every game, so I'm sure he loves Reckoning! It is sad that the game's roots were from an MMO. They just couldn't escape those limitations to make a deeper game.

Reckoning isn't bad and it's worth $30.00. It's just not really an AAA title though.

It's just not really an AAA title though

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For today"s releases, it is a deep AAA title. Its not Fallout, Baldurs Gate, Gothic, Neverwinter Nights, KOTR, Icewind Dale, or anything turn based. No choices leading to different paths.That is the primary critique here of any game that claims to be CRPG material except Gothic and Elder Scrolls of course. KOA is primary an action game which most people here are not fans of. Plus, add in the WOW art, and its no wonder everyone shoots it down.

I like the game as an action, loot fest and is best played on hard with Neil's mod. I have to agree with most here that it's roleplaying qualities are a bit skimpy, much like Diablo or Titan quest. Be nice to see what they can do with the MMO where they will have more hardware to pull off more things but again they are mostly action games too.

redman5427 said:

For today"s releases, it is a deep AAA title. Its not Fallout, Baldurs Gate, Gothic, Neverwinter Nights, KOTR, Icewind Dale, or anything turn based. No choices leading to different paths.That is the primary critique here of any game that claims to be CRPG material except Gothic and Elder Scrolls of course. KOA is primary an action game which most people here are not fans of. Plus, add in the WOW art, and its no wonder everyone shoots it down.

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I think this hits it on the nail.

The Watch is comprised of a bit more mature and a bit more conservative players than other sites, I guess.
To the world outseide, KOAR is very likely indeed an AAA game.
It's just that we here don't belong to the majority out there anymore.

I think real CRPG players are just tired of action heavy games being passed off as the new RPG standard. Fickle hardly describes a group of individuals whose tastes have remained static…

KoA may be a good game, but from what I have seen, it is not a good RPG.

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I would argue that RPGs have always tried to be action heavy, even turn-based RPGs. I think of RPGs like the Final Fantasy series. Yes there is some tactical strategy in a turn-based game (as there is in Reckoning and real-time combat too), and it's a bit slower paced (really the pace depends on the user. Turn-based games can be just as 'hectic' as real-time action games), but those turn-based games also wanted to get you "amped up" to enjoy the action part of it too. Action has always been a huge part of RPGs, it's just presented in slightly different ways in different games. And let's face it, real-time action games are the best they've ever been right now, so of course gaming companies are going to be making them.

As for Reckoning being a good game but not being a good RPG; sorry, but that's utter bull, and responses like that are the reason I'm posting my thoughts here. To say Reckoning is a good game but not a good RPG makes no sense to me. It's a super deep RPG fellas. There's enough dialog, lore, quests, and immersive atmosphere in this game to compete with any RPG on the market right now. How does that not make it a good RPG? The RPG systems in this game are rock solid. In many ways it's one of the best RPGs I've played, and trust me, I've played quite a few RPGs in my time.

You know what I think? I think because it has action combat in it, people, for some very odd reason, seem to think it's less of an RPG because of it. I'll be honest, when Reckoning was first announced a year or so ago, I too was afraid it would be more of an action game and not a deep RPG. But after following the game for some time and now playing it for 40 hours, I can safely say those fears were unfounded. Yet some people, even after playing the game for awhile, still relate Reckoning to a not-so-deep RPG experience because their viewpoints are tained with the thought that: "This game has intense action combat, it can't be a good RPG too!!". People are stuck in their viewpoints and have no ability to shift them to see a bigger picture.

Same thing with people spouting this, "Reckoning is more like an MMO than a single-player game" nonsense. What's so MMO about it? Exclamation points over quest-giver's heads, thats all. The rest of the game is a true single-player RPG experience. I think people just get these ideas stuck in their brains and they and the media run with them forever, never questioning them. These people are like parrots who spout whatever it is they heard from the last guy.

I was wondering if Fluent works for 38 Studios There is no way a long-time crpg player should find Reckoning anything more than average. While it is fairly entertaining until you get all the skills, it becomes a snooze fest soon after. I can play on hard, with zero points in might or finesse and still win battles with just melee. The game is broken. Dialogue? It's a complete joke.

Still, it is nice that there is at least one champion for this pale attempt at a deep crpg. Fluent, you're not alone. Rune_74 loves almost every game, so I'm sure he loves Reckoning! It is sad that the game's roots were from an MMO. They just couldn't escape those limitations to make a deeper game.

Reckoning isn't bad and it's worth $30.00. It's just not really an AAA title though.

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LOL. Yeah, ok. Pale attempt, it's not worth $60. This is not even worth responding to. We simply must not be playing the same game then.

JDR13 said:

You really need to take off the fan glasses and just accept that a lot of people aren't digging KoA as much as you are.

Sometimes a game just clicks with some people while it doesn't with others. You need to accept that and just move on, instead of trying to argue every single point with the people who don't view KoA the same way as you. The funny thing is that no one here is bashing it, but you're reacting as if they are simply because they're not enjoying it as much as you.

As far as how long I've played it, I can tell you I've played more than enough to grasp the game mechanics and get familiar with the art style, loot system, and atmosphere. Enough to see that it isn't for me.

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Most people here have bashed it. They called it Fable, which as we all know is an underhanded diss to the game. They scoffed at the graphics, they say it's not a deep RPG experience, and on and on it goes. I have every right to argue these completely bogus talking (more like bashing) points. If you want to call the game "the epitome of average" then expect a rebuttal on my end.

And to go deeper with this, I don't understand why RPG players have "preferences" to what style and type of RPGs they can enjoy in the first place. Heads up guys, all these RPGs that come out are aimed at us, the RPG crowd, to love and enjoy. I see absolutely NO reason why someone can enjoy Divinity 2, but then in turn can't enjoy Reckoning, like it has the plague or something. At least Mr. Average up there is still playing the game, even though he thinks it's just ok, he's still getting some enjoyment out of it.

I can enjoy every RPG out there, I don't care what game it is, if it's an RPG, has RPG systems and does the things an RPG is supposed to do, I will find some enjoyment with it. More often than not I will love it, simply for the fact it's a new and shiny RPG for me to play. I will never understand someone who will stand on a pedestal and say, "gah, this RPG has cartoony graphics, I simply cannot play it!" That seems extremely silly to me; it's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Why can't there be enough room in people's hearts for ALL RPGs, and not just some that they deem "worthy"?

I'm not saying you have to love every RPG that comes out (although that would help. You'd enjoy more games that way), but a fan of RPG games should be able to play any RPG and get some enjoyment out of it. I have never in my 20 years of gaming come across an RPG that I simply could not enjoy on some level. I have not even come across an RPG that "wasn't for me". They are all for me because I love RPGs!

But back to Reckoning. I think if more of you played the game simply to have fun instead of looking down on it, you would have a lot of fun with it and you'd realize it's a pretty deep RPG experience. But until you gave it that honest shot it's just going to be a game that you won't enjoy, but that you SHOULD have enjoyed. And it's sad that people are gonna miss out on a great, great game, all because of some preconceived notions that they can't shake off. Sad.

Again, some of you are simply too cynical for your own good. So cynical that it causes you to actually miss out on wonderful life experiences. I guess that's the reason I'm posting in this thread. Maybe I will change someone's mind. Maybe not, but it's worth trying.

Plus, add in the WOW art, and its no wonder everyone shoots it down.

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But why though? Why shoot it down because it has somewhat cartoonish graphics? Did you never like cartoons in your life? Are you so cold at this point that you simply can't enjoy a different style of art? I love Picasso but I won't "not look at" Da Vinci simply because he makes different art. I love jazz music but I respect makers of all music, including popular music (even though I cringe when I hear some of it).

Why can't RPG gamers enjoy action combat? The game still hinges deeply on the RPG systems. It's not simply an action game and that's that; far from it. Your RPG decisions influence the bulk of the combat. What gear you're wearing, what weapon you're using, your stats and your abilities. I don't see what's so horrible about that that RPG gamers just can't get on board.

@Fluent: I'll tell you frankly what I really don't like about Reckoning, or at least, what makes me re-think about picking it at day one, and wait a 75% discount or something like that before buying it.

What I really hate about this game, and by hate I mean HATE, is this stupid, useless, totally idiotic ATTENTION FOR LOOT. This is what I really can't stand anymore, being it RPG, action RPG or whatever you prefer.
I can stand the generic quests' writings, lore, the fact that I can be sneaky in full day, tedious dialogues, all of this it's ok by me, I can't expect that every RPG I play could be The Witcher, Arcanum, Geneforge, Torment, or else.
And I really appreciate the combat by the way, it's fluid, simple, fast, reminds me a lot of God of War (which is one of the main inspirations for the combat system), and from this point of view, Kingdoms of Amalur seems like Fable 'done right' (apart of camera and balancing problems, of course). If I have to rate this kind of real-time combat system, the first one will be Demon's/Dark Souls, strictly followed by Amalur: they give different feelings, but they make you enjoy fighting. It's just my opinion, of course, criticise it as much as you want.

That said, I still don't understand why on earth almost every action RPG that comes out these days must be so loot centered: I mean, why on earth do we have to have a fucking stupid clone of Diablo loot, one of the most overrated game on earth? Huh? Why is that?
I'm perfectly concious that this is not the only modern RPG that suffers this plague, and I can cite two other examples of games that we'be played in these months:
The Witcher 2 and Skyrim. Surely, at least they don't have the color palette for items' names, but you got the point.
Even floating quest markers is an horrible idea if you ask me, but acquiring loot to kill enemies that drop loot or materials to craft stuff (i.e. in fact, LOOT) is an overabused mechanics that's killing my fun with those kind of games.
Acquiring new items is an important part of the game, and that's good, but not when it becomes predominant over everything else: I mean, they hired Ken Rolston, they let Robert Anthony Salvatore write the lore, and what did they come up with? A sort of Divinity II "clone", but with less funny dialogues and even more centered in killing every single form of life so that you can have the Awesome Sword of Awesomeness…
How would you like it if Reckoning was with the same combat system, but with not random loot, better storytelling full of branches and twist, and meaningful choices? I think it'd be a much better Role Playing Game (of course, it can be said for other RPGs as well, but we're talking just about Amalur).
I'm done with it, sorry for the long reply and the bad English, have fun all, being it with Amalur or whatever.
Excuse me, my Anvil of Dawn playthrough is calling…

If I like rpg's I should like every rpg??? Why stop there I like games so I should like all games, Pc games, consoles, handheld, phone, browser and facebook. I should like everyone of them???

I'm sorry @fluent I was with you. You were defending a game you feel passionate about and I respect that, but now you are just sounding irrational and fanatical. Most aren't even bashing KOA we just don't like it as much as you.

Signed--Mr. Average.

Someone asked if Fluent worked for 38 Studios, if he doesn't then he should.

I've been on the fence about buying this game but after reading his championing of KoA I'm going to pick it up today as he covered a lot of points I was questioning in the game.
Maybe I won't enjoy it as much as Fluent does, I don't know, and I'm taking in what Sakichop said also, but overall this whole thread has me too curious now to pass up the game.
That's the great thing about RPGWatch always some really interesting takes on RPG gaming from different points of view.

Fluent said:

I would argue that RPGs have always tried to be action heavy, even turn-based RPGs. I think of RPGs like the Final Fantasy series. Yes there is some tactical strategy in a turn-based game (as there is in Reckoning and real-time combat too), and it's a bit slower paced (really the pace depends on the user. Turn-based games can be just as 'hectic' as real-time action games), but those turn-based games also wanted to get you "amped up" to enjoy the action part of it too. Action has always been a huge part of RPGs, it's just presented in slightly different ways in different games. And let's face it, real-time action games are the best they've ever been right now, so of course gaming companies are going to be making them.

As for Reckoning being a good game but not being a good RPG; sorry, but that's utter bull, and responses like that are the reason I'm posting my thoughts here. To say Reckoning is a good game but not a good RPG makes no sense to me. It's a super deep RPG fellas. There's enough dialog, lore, quests, and immersive atmosphere in this game to compete with any RPG on the market right now. How does that not make it a good RPG? The RPG systems in this game are rock solid. In many ways it's one of the best RPGs I've played, and trust me, I've played quite a few RPGs in my time.

You know what I think? I think because it has action combat in it, people, for some very odd reason, seem to think it's less of an RPG because of it. I'll be honest, when Reckoning was first announced a year or so ago, I too was afraid it would be more of an action game and not a deep RPG. But after following the game for some time and now playing it for 40 hours, I can safely say those fears were unfounded. Yet some people, even after playing the game for awhile, still relate Reckoning to a not-so-deep RPG experience because their viewpoints are tained with the thought that: "This game has intense action combat, it can't be a good RPG too!!". People are stuck in their viewpoints and have no ability to shift them to see a bigger picture.

Same thing with people spouting this, "Reckoning is more like an MMO than a single-player game" nonsense. What's so MMO about it? Exclamation points over quest-giver's heads, thats all. The rest of the game is a true single-player RPG experience. I think people just get these ideas stuck in their brains and they and the media run with them forever, never questioning them. These people are like parrots who spout whatever it is they heard from the last guy.

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Action heavy/twitchy real time combat is not what RPGs have always aspired to be. One of(if not) the biggest differences between an aRPG and more traditional RPG is the combat. The quintessential RPG is all about the player's character and the skills/abilities of the in game character(at least in terms of combat and in game interactions/reactivity - there's still more to an RPG). The moment the in game character's success/failure is tied to the players hand-eye coordination, general reflexes or twitchy skills is the moment the game becomes action oriented and less of a RPG…

You shouldn't confuse action with taking an action. In both the traditional RPG and aRPG the PC takes actions, however taking an action does not imply manually performing the action.

If you want to look at one of the best aRPGs, look no further than VtMB… Now you might be wondering what sets Bloodlines apart from KoA? Well there is two big things, how your in game character(not you the player on a meta level) interacts/reacts to the in game world and how the world interacts/reacts to your character. I'm not just talking about the different dialogue and dialogue options, but actual gameplay/mechanics like frenzy and masquerade violations.

I will concede that from the 40 or so hours of KoA I've played, that the House of Ballads quest line is the best… But overall the game itself is incredibly rigid/on rails. There is no meaningful C&C(refusing fetch/kill quests is not C&C). Think about the house of Ballads quest line, after completing it they do nothing with it - you interactions with 99.9% of fae and others after that are the same as the would be if you hadn't done that quest line.

What's the fateless one's motivation when faced with action/repetitive combat simply for the sake of it? Where's the non-linearity? It plays like an MMO because it is structured like an MMO, a lot of the game feels like filler meant to engage the player via the combat…

I could give more quest specific examples of where the game fails to meet certain RPG expectations - Eg In the same vein as Skyrim, where you can be everything to everybody. That is not good game design from a RPG perspective… Ffff Yeah my meatplow Fighter is now archmage, leader of thieves guild and DB listener/leader. That just isn't satisfying from a true RPG perspective, becoming such a demigod is almost a slap in the face to the conceptual origins of RPG.

First of all, I like the art but many here do not. It's a solid 8 of 10 game for me so this is coming from someone who likes it and is a fan of the game. However, there are not game defining choices in this game. I don't really feel anything for the characters in this game. A game like Mass Effect, you feel like your choices mean something. There are emotions involved. You want to help some characters and really, really mess with others. All that dialogue in KOA and none for the character you are playing? Really? I think that was a mistake. I like a character who grows not only in stat points but shows in dialogue options how he/she has learned and what viewpoints as a result of interactions the character now has toward this world.

R.A Salvatore was is charge of creating lore and a back story but what I have heard is he didn't write any dialogue or quests. Might have made it a bit more memorable if he had.