Dragon Age 2 - Legacy Demo Released

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Bioware has recorded the Legacy Demo shown yesterday. You can view it here. It covers the start of the DLC, showing combat and how to use traps during combat Additionally Bioware developers have been answering questions in this thread at the DA2 forums.

A few samples:
Yrkoon asked this question:

I got a question. The answer of which will determine whether I bother with this DLC.
I like dungeon-crawls. Who here doesn't? But what I'm craving right now is a role-playing experience. If you had to define this DLC would you define it as
a) a hack and slash with a dash of story and decision-making sprinkled in??
b) a story/RP experience with a dash of hack and slash sprinkled in?

John Epler from Bioware answered:
How about : A story where the gameplay is directly informed by the narrative. As in, your motivation for completing this DLC is entirely story-driven. There's combat, certainly, and no small amount of it, but I feel that most (if not all) fights makes sense within the context of the narrative as a whole. Creatures aren't just being dropped so we can say 'IT'S TIME FOR A FIGHT!' Of course, everyone's perception of this will be different. But I certainly felt that the story in this DLC was particularly compelling, and woven rather well into the module as a whole.
Dormiglione asked this:
Will the Bonus items of Legacy carry over in new playthrough?

The answer to this was given by John Epler as well:
Then no, any DLC gear you acquire through Legacy has to be acquired -as- part of Legacy. I think the reason it was done in that fashion with Leliana's Song was because it was an adventure that wasn't really integrated with the Warden's adventure in the same way. Since we were already handwaving as to why you had an item related to an adventure you weren't a participant in, it made it easier to handwave that 'okay, now you always have that gear'.
More information.
 
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John Epler from Bioware answered:

...Creatures aren't just being dropped so we can say 'IT'S TIME FOR A FIGHT!'...

You mean like the rest of Dragon Age 2?
 
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old complaint is old, but the parachuting enemies are so ridiculous. They eventually battle-fatigued me into just wanting the drawn-out, seemingly endless war of attrition to end. I'm at the end of the game right now, and I did something in Chapt 3 that I normally never do on RPGs - I skipped any quests that werent taking me directly to end-game. I knew it was just going to be waves of parachuting same enemies, in copy/pasted same locations, so in act 3 i just went right for the main quests and called it good. I'm a total completist to the point it's OCD, this is unprecedented.

Supposedly they are addressing that ridiculosity (lol) or trying to in this DLC. Too late tho, the damage has been done, I have no interest in taking the DA2 experience any further no matter how the game is tweaked. I just want it to end. Please, put a fucking stake in it's heart already and leave it for the sun to claim.
 
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Not gonna bother watching that. More Dragon Age 2 is pretty easy to picture in my mind, I don't need a lengthy walkthrough. I didn't hate the game like so many others though, I will probably get this when I'm bored.
 
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I have finally bought the game, and playet it a bit yesterday. I started on casual, which to me, is way, to easy. I installed the patch 1.03 and enemies do not drop down from the sky or appear out of thin air anymore, they have a reason for them being there now.

They still appear behind the mages, though, but as part of the reinforcements. However, this is no different, to me, that rogues de-cloaking in the old Baldur's Gate games went after the mages...
 
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b) a story/RP experience with a dash of hack and slash sprinkled in?

John Epler from Bioware answered:
How about : A story where the gameplay is directly informed by the narrative. As in, your motivation for completing this DLC is entirely story-driven. There's combat, certainly, and no small amount of it, but I feel that most (if not all) fights makes sense within the context of the narrative as a whole. Creatures aren't just being dropped so we can say 'IT'S TIME FOR A FIGHT!' Of course, everyone's perception of this will be different. But I certainly felt that the story in this DLC was particularly compelling, and woven rather well into the module as a whole.

How did players come to identify story with RPG? This is so unexpected.
The developper's answer tells it all. There is no fundamental cause to deny this option to most other genres. Shooters can get their gameplay informed by the narrative.
The main difference is that shooter players prefer to get their priorities right, with shooter gameplay not being reduced to the quality of the story.

Good battles in shooter are only enhanced by great introductive and threading stories. Good stories do not make a shooter. And they do not make a RPG.
 
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There's combat, certainly, and no small amount of it, but I feel that most (if not all) fights makes sense within the context of the narrative as a whole.

Endlessly fighting darkspawn in the deep roads made sense given the context, that doesn't change the fact that it was no fun at all.
 
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Supposedly they are addressing that ridiculosity (lol) or trying to in this DLC. Too late tho, the damage has been done, I have no interest in taking the DA2 experience any further no matter how the game is tweaked. I just want it to end. Please, put a fucking stake in it's heart already and leave it for the sun to claim.

That's pretty much how I feel - love the stake bit, spot on! ("Yes, Von Helsing - do it! now!" "Aieeeeeee!") The one good thing about the crappy games coming out these days is that I'm getting a chance to catch up on my backlog of books. …
 
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The one good thing about the crappy games coming out these days is that I'm getting a chance to catch up on my backlog of books. …

Haha… yep. Made it through a couple from the "Master and Commander" series that I had on-deck for some time now. Good to know if games continue to blow chunks, I'll have plenty of great reading as an alternative.
 
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Good battles in shooter are only enhanced by great introductive and threading stories. Good stories do not make a shooter. And they do not make a RPG.
This is precisely the core of my complain with Bioware games post-Infinity Engine (at least, in games where the game was "about the story"). The story provides direction, impetus even, but it is not the core of the experience. No more than having a really strong cast of supporting characters is the core of an RPG. Obviously feelings differ these days and with the "what is an RPG?" waters being muddied up by every developer that wades into the pool, but my personal feeling is that an RPG provides some sort of opportunity for the player to act out a role. Whether the role is that of a more predetermined character as in The Witcher or the Blank Slate kind of character you'd create in an Elder Scrolls game, there's some sort of player input as to the definition of the character themselves. Moral choices. Class (this being the biggie in the earliest RPGs: there WAS often no story in early RPGs, just your choice of Wizard, Fighter, Thief, and that was enough). An world open enough that it allows the player to simply do what their character would do (or, if they're roleplaying themselves, what THEY would do). The whole Narrative angle is extremely new, but it doesn't bring anything to the RPG table. RPGs were simply the genre that used it earlier than the others.

Now, I don't have any real problem with the redefinition of the specifics of a marketing brand so long as it still manages to differentiate the genre from the others (what's the point of having a term for it if it doesn't, right?), but at this point, the term "RPG" is simply too broad to have any practical use for me. These days, I also look for the terms "old-school" or "retro" or "party-based" or "classic", because the new definition of the RPG genre is inclusive of a degree of narrative that I feel doesn't have anything to do with "roleplaying" at all.

Strip away the plotline, and there's really not a lot to a Biwoare game. The combat is usually all right -- engaging, fun, but not a lot of depth or challenge, usually -- and the settings haven't been any sort of priority for them since BG1 (for me, BG2 SoA marked the real start of the "levels-first, world second" design approach, and they've been paring down their environments ever since, culminating in the corridors-and-arenas in recycled-maps schtick that DA2 foisted off on a largely unsuspecting public... though they shouldn't have been if they'd been paying attention to 1) history and 2) development cycles). The characters are where the "story" is at in a Bioware game these days. That's the only place imagination is still allowed to play without the game ruining the fun.

Honestly, though, I'm not sure I can really call Bioware's games "story-driven", anymore. I know that's been their marketing tag-line for the last decade, but for me, "story" includes setting as well, and as mentioned, Bio doesn't do Setting. That puts their games, in my personal opinion if no one else's, in the realm of PLOT-driven. But with ME2's story being found more in the NPC acquisition and loyalty missions, and DA2 being... what it was, with its so-called ten-year narrative and its evident lack of an overarching storyline, I almost have to wonder whether the time for this discussion hasn't already come and gone, at least as it applies to Bioware games.

If anything, I'd say that Bioware's games are not longer Story-driven, no longer even plot driven, but are now simply character-driven, as if just one more aspect of what a good "story" entails has been stripped away.

I can see a couple benefits to focusing on character development, rather than plot-lines, but for me it explains a nagging sort of dissatisfaction I've had with the recent Bioware offerings... even outside of the obvious "rushed development" sorts of issues. The emotional resonance simply isn't where it used to be for me, even for video games. They're wonderfully written characters, but that's all they are to me: characters on a stage, playing their parts. Most of that feeling, the sense that they're just actors rather than people, boils down to context. As well written as Grunt and Thane were, they were elements that stuck out like a sore thumb from the rest of the experience. They all were. They had no place in the world of their own, because there was no world to speak of. There never is in a Bioware game. Just little character sketches on a textured background. Contrast that with Triss, Roche, Letho, and in my mind the difference is pretty stark. One game succeeds with flying colours, the other falls flat. The characters are similar in their writing and the amount of screen time and interaction, but its their place in the world that brings them to life. Hell, even with SoA... I HATED Bodhi; hated, feared, and pitied Irenicus, held Anomen in just a bit of contempt, but they all attained the trappings of people, rather than just actors. Alistair, Morrigan... very well realized in an of themselves, but they were all just islands. Once the dialogue screen closed or the movie was done playing, their place in the game was gone, too.

Anyway, Character-driven games.... that's what bioware does now, I think, if their last two games are any indication. Almost pure soap-opera material, save for the action element. I know they've said they're aiming a the Call of Duty demographic, but I can't help but wonder if their method isn't putting them much more toward the Bored Housewife demographic instead. Would certainly explain the obsessive fixation the board members have with romance, at any rate.




And yes, I know. tl;dr
 
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The one good thing about the crappy games coming out these days is that I'm getting a chance to catch up on my backlog of books. …

Yes - either that or older, better games.

but I can't help but wonder if their method isn't putting them much more toward the Bored Housewife demographic instead. Would certainly explain the obsessive fixation the board members have with romance, at any rate.

I once had a similar thought - but on the other hand I'm wholeheartedly glad at least someone does it.

It just feels so much ... refreshing - and new to the genre. Still.

As everyone knows already (I hope), I'm rather in the faction supporting what I call "social role-playing" (did anyone say "social roll playing" ?) - and I'm rather not so much into action. The less, the older I become.
 
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I'm not so much into action myself, to the point where I sometimes question why I am playing RPGs these days since they're all so action-oriented, however I'm not sure I care for Bioware's increasing fixation on romance either. It's gotten to the point where npcs and party members are throwing themselves at your main PC without provocation. If I'm roleplaying a character I don't want to be fending off unwanted advances. I know some have argued it's "realistic" but so is going to the bathroom. That doesn't mean it's fun to play.

I'm all for options but I don't know that I need my RPGs to become full on dating sims either. As others have noted, the fixation that people have at the Bioware forums over romance seems a bit much. Why not just play The Sims if that's what you really want? I feel like Bioware is trying to grab the more male CoD audience and the more female Sims audience at the same time. I'm not sure that sort of marriage is a particularly good one though.
 
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Stupid dialog with limited choices (with a stupid dialog wheel), stupid characters, poor level design, ugly graphics and lack of an isometric camera, no skills, and a gay main character. I fail to see how this is different from DA2. BioWare RPs may be trying to convince us that removing parachuting enemies is a step in old-school direction, but in truth it is just a desperate attempt to fix a huge mistake in a mediocre action/adventure game. It has nothing to do with role playing.

Honestly, dialog in this DLC is as childish and stupid as it was in DA2.
 
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I do enjoy the conversation on RPGs here more than most other sites, where one must wade through a bog of ire just to find a few well-thought-out critiques.

I must agree with much that has been said here.

Over the last decade or so I have noticed that games, especially RPGs, rarely require their players to be clever, and that is what I miss the most. There are several reasons for it, of course: time constraints on the player; the ease of finding solutions on the 'net; game designs which are increasingly derivative upon other games' designs; compartmentalization of studio teams (i.e., a programmer or artist now has little design input, it's all up to the design team); more reasons come to mind than I have time to put down.

The need to use one's wits to overcome gaming challenges and discovering the unexpected was always the appeal for me, and what brought me into the games industry. Well-designed games were far more interesting than sitting in front of a television and being force-fed entertainment. Lately, the force-fed, compulsion-rewarding gaming experience has become the norm; and that, my friends, is a major drag.
 
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