Crowfall - Game of Thrones Meets Eve Online

Couchpotato

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Forum member Ripper sent me a link to a new game called Crowfall: Throne War. The games developer ArtCraft Entertainment is asking for $800,000, and is already half funded.



Crowfall is a new Massively Multiplayer Online Game brought to you by Gordon Walton (Executive Producer of Ultima Online,The Sims Online, Star Wars: Galaxies and Star Wars: the Old Republic) and J. Todd Coleman (Creative Director of Shadowbane, Wizard101 and Pirate101).
So yeah its an MMO so you can skip it if you don't like them.

More information.
 
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Looks very interesting and I wish them all the best since we need more of these low budget, niche and targeted MMORPGs to succeeded so that companies move away from the idea of "next WoW killer" MMORPGs.

Lets face it that MMORPGs are niche hobby and WoW is extreme outlier in the MMORPGs scene and I think its time we return MMORPGs which targets certain audience type rather than try and appeal to everyone and their mother. This way developers can experiment and try out new ideas. Even if they fail, its not big deal to industry as a whole rather than say when big budget MMPRPGS such as ESO, SWTOR etc fail.

I don't think I will be playing Crowdfall since I am not huge PvP fan but if this succeed we might get other PvE focused MMORPGs.
 
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I think KS is a very bad model for MMOs - given the particularly demanding and unpredictable nature of such beasts.
 
"Game of Thrones Meets Eve Online"? More like Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning meets Zombie Apocalypse...
 
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I think KS is a very bad model for MMOs - given the particularly demanding and unpredictable nature of such beasts.

According to Mark Jacobs of Camelot Unchained, their budget is about $5 million dollars. They got 2 million via KS, 2 million from Mark Jacobs own pocket and 1 million from private investor. Their team is about 25 people.

Everquest 1 budget was $3 million back in 1999 and that's about $4.5 million in today's money.

So I think you can make a niche and targeted MMO with low budget and a small team and given today's tech advances in MMO area, I don't think its huge and demanding task.
 
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According to Mark Jacobs of Camelot Unchained, their budget is about $5 million dollars. They got 2 million via KS, 2 million from Mark Jacobs own pocket and 1 million from private investor. Their team is about 25 people.

Everquest 1 budget was $3 million back in 1999 and that's about $4.5 million in today's money.

So I think you can make a niche and targeted MMO with low budget and a small team and given today's tech advances in MMO area, I don't think its huge and demanding task.

I don't know if you've noticed - but budgets are not what they used to be - as things tend to cost a LOT more money, especially things like art and sound, as the standard of fidelity has grown exponentially.

Back in the day, you also had the luxury of being a novel concept when you launched an MMO - and you could survive a ton of brokenness because people didn't really have an alternative.

Today, if you launch an MMO, you better know what the hell you're doing - or the audience will kick your ass.

But time will tell, won't it :)
 
I don't think I will be playing Crowdfall since I am not huge PvP fan but if this succeed we might get other PvE focused MMORPGs.

It's not the first MMO to be kickstarted (and funded), but none of the kickstarter MMOs have released yet. They are mostly PvP focused games because devs believe they have less work that way.

And then you have things like Project Gorgon that you can play for free in their betas already and haven't begged anyone for money yet.
 
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It's certainly less work in terms of content, if you focus on PvP and sandbox gameplay, but it will also result in a much smaller audience and excessive headaches due to both real and perceived balance issues.

But, if they're good at planning for the long-term, it's not impossible
 
I don't know if you've noticed - but budgets are not what they used to be - as things tend to cost a LOT more money, especially things like art and sound, as the standard of fidelity has grown exponentially.

But time will tell, won't it :)

I agree budgets are huge now (200+ million for MMO) but I wonder how much of that is wasted. SOE wrote off nearly $70 million last year and apparently thats all money wasted on 3 reboots of Everquest Next so there is lot of waste in the industry. Lot of money is also pent on voice acting etc and small PvP focused MMO won't need fluff like that at all.

As you say, only time will tell since none of these niche MMO have made it in to the market yet and this is why I said "I wish" they will succeed. :)

The big problem with MMO industry is that *all* new MMOs seems to cost in the 100s of millions. This is why we keep on getting WoW clones and no MMOs with new ideas. This is why MMO budgets needs to come down to reasonable levels. I think we need a mix of small and big budget MMOs for a healthy industry.
 
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I agree budgets are huge now (200+ million for MMO) but I wonder how much of that is wasted. SOE wrote off nearly $70 million last year and apparently thats all money wasted on 3 reboots of Everquest Next so there is lot of waste in the industry. Lot of money is also pent on voice acting etc and small PvP focused MMO won't need fluff like that at all.

As you say, only time will tell since none of these niche MMO have made it in to the market yet and this is why I said "I wish" they will succeed. :)

The big problem with MMO industry is that *all* new MMOs seems to cost in the 100s of millions. This is why we keep on getting WoW clones and no MMOs with new ideas. This is why MMO budgets needs to come down to reasonable levels. I think we need a mix of small and big budget MMOs for a healthy industry.

I agree that money could be much better spent on other things, but it's a sad reality that you often need a lot of money to market your game.

But there's really no way to avoid the cost of producing detailed assets if you want a large audience - and that takes a lot of time and work. Unless you plan on starving your team, you need a lot of resouces to pay them until it's done.

That said, I obviously hope it will succeed. I hope almost all games succeed - as I think there's room for a zillion games :)
 
It's not the first MMO to be kickstarted (and funded), but none of the kickstarter MMOs have released yet. They are mostly PvP focused games because devs believe they have less work that way.

And then you have things like Project Gorgon that you can play for free in their betas already and haven't begged anyone for money yet.

Yes you are right and most of these KS ones haven't been released so we don't know how all of this will turn out but its still interesting to follow these MMO and see whats going to happen :)

IIRC Project Gorgon did have two KS but I think both failed. They din't have any well know name attached to them and the person behind it wasn't good at publishing the KS and the game.

But there's really no way to avoid the cost of producing detailed assets if you want a large audience - and that takes a lot of time and work. Unless you plan on starving your team, you need a lot of resouces to pay them until it's done.

Mark Jacobs mentioned that they will only need about 40k subs for them to be considered "success". I took that to mean with 40k subs they will got their money back and make a profit. So a MMO doesn't actually need a large audience at all to "succeed" so these niches MMO can keep cost down quite alot.
 
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Mark Jacobs mentioned that they will only need about 40k subs for them to be considered "success". I took that to mean with 40k subs they will got their money back and make a profit. So a MMO doesn't actually need a large audience at all to "succeed" so these niches MMO can keep cost down quote a lot.

That's after having made the game. I'm talking about making the game, not maintaining it.

You need a lot of resources to make it - and then to make it work.

All developers will want a large audience - especially when selling the game in a pitch and upon release, and you won't maintain even 40K subs if your game has no foothold and it doesn't look good. Not these days, anyway, because there are - literally - dozens (if not hundreds) of "free" MMOs that look good and play well.

Releasing a game without much content and hoping people will latch on without, at least, being attractive is not very realistic.

But I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it's very, very hard - and I'll believe it can happen here when I see it. Which means I won't be supporting it.
 
That's after having made the game. I'm talking about making the game, not maintaining it.

You need a lot of resources to make it - and then to make it work.

All developers will want a large audience - especially when selling the game in a pitch and upon release, and you won't maintain even 40K subs if your game has no foothold and it doesn't look good. Not these days, anyway, because there are - literally - dozens (if not hundreds) of "free" MMOs that look good and play well.

Releasing a game without much content and hoping people will latch on without, at least, being attractive is not very realistic.

But I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it's very, very hard - and I'll believe it can happen here when I see it. Which means I won't be supporting it.

If you are a person who think there exists lots of "free" MMOs that "looks good and play well" then these KS funded niche MMOs aren't aimed at you at all. Since you will be playing one of those already and not really looking for another. I think these KS MMOs are aimed a gamer who doesn't really like any of the current MMOs. This group of gamers are small hence the word niche however they are sufficient in number to fund and sustain these new MMOs.

Also these games aren't being released "without much content". They are being released with very rich and detailed targeted or focused content. What I mean is, Crowfall and Camelot Unchained are aiming to release with highly detailed and new PvP systems which their audience want. There are no content for PVE person like me but then none of these games are aimed at me.

All I want now is to someone to KS a group play focused PvE only MMO and I will sign up!
 
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If you are a person who think there exists lots of "free" MMOs that "looks good and play well" then these KS funded niche MMOs aren't aimed at you at all. Since you will be playing one of those already and not really looking for another. I think these KS MMOs are aimed a gamer who doesn't really like any of the current MMOs. This group of gamers are small hence the word niche however they are sufficient in number to fund and sustain these new MMOs.

I don't think that much of any current "free" MMO. I'm putting myself in the place of the average MMO gamer, both core and mainstream. I'm very familiar with that niche mindset, as I've played countless MMOs and I actively participate on forums where everyone has their own idea of the perfect way to make a "niche" MMO.

So, I know there are lots of people "claiming" they want a real old-school PvP experience. But there's a vast difference between what people think they want - and what they're going to enjoy in the long-term.

That's what you need to have if you want to maintain subscriptions.

Also these games aren't being released "without much content". They are being released with very rich and detailed targeted or focused content. What I mean is, Crowfall and Camelot Unchained are aiming to release with highly detailed and new PvP systems which their audience want. There are no content for PVE person like me but then none of these games are aimed at me.

Again, time will tell. But then again, I'm not as easily convinced as you seem to be.

People THINK they want to play DAoC again. I don't really think they do. Maybe a tiny, tiny portion REALLY want to, but most will eventually remember why they stopped playing it back in the day.
 
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I agree budgets are huge now (200+ million for MMO) but I wonder how much of that is wasted. SOE wrote off nearly $70 million last year and apparently thats all money wasted on 3 reboots of Everquest Next so there is lot of waste in the industry.

Those huge budget go with the oversized dev team and way too long development cycle. It just happen more often for MMO than "single player" games (didn't stop GTAV though).

And SOE write-off was of ~$52 millions (6.2 billion yens) and it wasn't all for EQNext. A few months before Sony released its financial report, SOE announced the closure of 4 games and they had 200+ layoff in August 2013. Their might have been other projects we never learned about that were cancelled in the last few years too (since 2010 they went from 5 studios to 2, two of them were closed down when they cancelled The Agency in 2011).
 
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someone needs to make a fantasy setting MMORPG with real role playing elements deep character development, exploration and focused solely on PvE and not focused solely on end game raiding
 
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As an old fan of Shadowbane's gameplay, wars and politics...and since they clearly stated that they are trying to appeal to that crowd on their forums...


I look forward to what they'll do but Im keeping my hopes down to a very reasonable level :p.
 
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I love a well done mmo, but pvp.....I just never understood the concept, nor the supposed appeal. I recall doing pvp in EQ one for about 3 hours, and it was totally boring. So, I'm guessing Crowfall wouldn't be for me. Oddly enough, my wife found out about this game before I did.
 
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