Master of Orion - Preview @ theEscapist

DArtagnan said:

I think the screenshots reveal a game focusing on visuals, considering the game was never about detailed animations of leaders and planets. That was a little bonus on top of a wonderfully rich feature set.

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Well, if those leader screenshots make you think like that in the age of The Witcher 3 graphics... What's special about them? One model with some animation and a static background? Doesn't seem to be much different than what we had in the older ones.

DArtagnan said:

I certainly don't agree with them. Too complex by having too many features? Not really.

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Well I'd say that's a good definition for complexity

DArtagnan said:

Of course it can be improved and streamlined to an extent, but let's just say I don't have much faith in a modern take by developers who want to introduce this franchise to the masses.

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If they want it to reach the mases they are doing really bad considering the low press they are having.

I am one of the 10% who didn't bother much with battles and ship customization. I never felt it was really satisfying and thougt it was subpar with the rest of the game, which fortunately was big and good enough to make a great game in its own. If they can do it right all the best but if they can't I'll be happy if it is just left out and the rest of the game improves thanks to it. But that's just me, I understand for others that could be unacceptable.

I understand the healthy pessimism around though.

Vitirr said:

I am one of the 10% who didn't bother much with battles and ship customization.

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You read it wrong. They claim that 90% of players dont bother with tactical battles and and ship customization!

Build your own better ships and use them properly in battles was one of the core elements. Streamline it into some shallow or bonus element doesnt make sense in Master of Orion imho.

Vitirr said:

Well, if those leader screenshots make you think like that in the age of The Witcher 3 graphics… What's special about them? One model with some animation and a static background? Doesn't seem to be much different than what we had in the older ones.

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I don't think you understand. I'm not saying they're focusing on Witcher 3 level graphics or even pretty graphics.

I'm saying they're focusing on graphics.

In a game like this, I'd like the focus to be on mechanics and interesting gameplay.

Well I'd say that's a good definition for complexity

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They're not talking about complexity. They're talking about TOO MUCH complexity.

I hope we can all agree that strategy games like this need to be complex.

If they want it to reach the mases they are doing really bad considering the low press they are having.

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Low press? For a strategy game that hasn't been talked about for more than 10 years? I don't think so.

I am one of the 10% who didn't bother much with battles and ship customization. I never felt it was really satisfying and thougt it was subpar with the rest of the game, which fortunately was big and good enough to make a great game in its own. If they can do it right all the best but if they can't I'll be happy if it is just left out and the rest of the game improves thanks to it. But that's just me, I understand for others that could be unacceptable.

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I thought both were quite satisfying in MoO 2.

I can understand not missing these features if you don't like them, though.

DArtagnan said:

I don't think you understand. I'm not saying they're focusing on Witcher 3 level graphics or even pretty graphics.

I'm saying they're focusing on graphics.

In a game like this, I'd like the focus to be on mechanics and interesting gameplay.

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What I'm saying is that we know nothing about mechanics and nothing about graphics, only a few pictures that don't make me think at all that graphics is their focus because they're nothing out of the ordinary (though you can be right in the long run).

DArtagnan said:

They're not talking about complexity. They're talking about TOO MUCH complexity.

I hope we can all agree that strategy games like this need to be complex.

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Indeed but I also think too much complexity is possible even for a deep strategy game.

DArtagnan said:

Low press? For a strategy game that hasn't been talked about for more than 10 years? I don't think so.

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Precisely for that reason should be bigger news (it is for me at least). Anyway, the press coverage they're having is objectively low IMO. I didn't know myself the game was announce until a few days.

Vitirr said:

What I'm saying is that we know nothing about mechanics and nothing about graphics, only a few pictures that don't make me think at all that graphics is their focus because they're nothing out of the ordinary (though you can be right in the long run).

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How can we know nothing about graphics when that's all they've shown?

Indeed but I also think too much complexity is possible even for a deep strategy game.

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I agree, but I don't agree that the feature sets in MoO and MoO 2 represent too much complexity. That was my point.

Precisely for that reason should be bigger news (it is for me at least). Anyway, the press coverage they're having is objectively low IMO. I didn't know myself the game was announce until a few days.

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If you think yourself capable of determining what's objectively low in this sense, then please don't add "imo" - as that makes you appear a bit silly

In any case, we'll have to agree to disagree here. Considering the genre and developer, I think the E3 announcement and press coverage has gone quite beyond the norm.

A lot of recent 4X games don't seem to have gotten this kind of press treatment.

DArtagnan said:

How can we know nothing about graphics when that's all they've shown?

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If you are speaking literally I'd answer how can you show anything else than graphics? If not, then I think they've shown just the same in most departments, barely anything.

The game has just been announced and is apparently early in development, if you expect a lengthy desciption of mechanics or a video explaining them that's quite optimistic.

Anyway this silly will hope for a good game and will keep a big eye on it

Vitirr said:

If you are speaking literally I'd answer how can you show anything else than graphics? If not, then I think they've shown just the same in most departments, barely anything.

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They've shown nothing in the actual game department, and they've said next to nothing about it - except vague hints of their thought process.

The game has just been announced and is apparently early in development, if you expect a lengthy desciption of mechanics or a video explaining them that's quite optimistic.

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I don't expect anything. I'm responding to what's there - which is zero information on anything except graphics and vague hints about learning from past games.

Anyway this silly will hope for a good game and will keep a big eye on it

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Agreed

@lostforever

I found Alpha Centauri quite excellent. For me it's a tossup between it and Master of Orion (original). Also X3 Terran Conflict was quite enthralling. Hard choice between all three. Probably depends more on what you want. Simulation vs base building / grand strategy vs turn-based tactical combat, etc…

lostforever said:

Any recommendation for good space based 4X game for someone new to genre?

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Someone mentioned Distant Worlds. I've heard nothing but good things about that. Nice and complex, though I haven't played it. Frankly, the text looks too damn small for me. Also, Distant Worlds is real time with pause.

Master of Orion 2 is your undisputed champ in space. Want a more-modern spiritual successor to MoO2? StarDrive 2 is the answer to that question. That I have played, and it's a good game. The similarities to MoO2 are many and apparent.

Capt. Huggy Face said:

Master of Orion 2 is your undisputed champ in space. Want a more-modern spiritual successor to MoO2? StarDrive 2 is the answer to that question. That I have played, and it's a good game. The similarities to MoO2 are many and apparent.

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I agree though the first Star Drive game was terrible, and the developer never bothered to fix it. Still the second game was a vast improvement in many areas.

Couchpotato said:

I agree though the first Star Drive game was teriible, and the developer never bothered to fixe it. Still the second game was a vast improvement in many areas.

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Yeah, I understand he pissed off a lot of owners of the first game by quickly dropping development and moving on to the sequel. I never played the first but understand the second is quite a bit different, moving from real time to turn based, for one fundamental change.

Also, I wouldn't be too put off by the mixed reviews for the sequel on Steam. If you read them, many are from people pissed about the difficulty with invaders in the beginning of the game. Though not an easy game, the dev has since toned that down and even put in an option for it, if I recall correctly.

lostforever said:

Any recommendation for good space based 4X game for someone new to genre?

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Not sure why, but I always get space on the brain when it comes to 4x games. You mentioned you've already played Civilization. I'm a big fan of Civ V. Someone has already mentioned Galactic Civilizations III, which is still under development in Early Access. If you want what a complete game that is essentially Civilization in space, there's its predecessor, GalCiv II. Sword of the Stars was a good one in space. Its sequel was a mess at release and for a long while after. I hear it may be better now, though a bit obtuse, but I'm not sure. I should give it another look.

Back on Earth, I can recommend Crusader Kings II, which plays out entirely on a medieval map and with much political wrangling in the form of text events. On a more geo-political scale in the subsequent era of colonization and empire building, though using essentially the same engine as CK II, is Europa Universalis IV, but I've only just picked it up in Steam's summer sale. Just starting to learn how to play now.

In a fantasy setting, if you don't mind old-school graphics and interface but with good gameplay, there is the beloved Master of Magic. And there are plenty of good and large tactical turn-based fights in Age of Wonders 2: Shadow Magic. Age of Wonders III is also a good game. More focus on the fights than others in the genre, though on a smaller scale than its predecessor, and less on developing your cities. For more of an RPG and Civ feel in a fantasy setting, I like Fallen Enchantres: Legendary Heroes. It was a long road to get there, but props to Stardock for finally making it a damn fine game.

If you play all those, that should keep you busy for the next five years, and I don't think you'll play a bad game in the bunch.

It will be interesting to see.
I enjoyed all 3 Master of Orions (Yes I even enjoyed MoO 3).
I suspect it will mainly be updated graphics, which is like icing on a cake... Nice but not essential.
I hope they do put a lot of different technology developments in.

There is no Moo 3 ;-)

What? Noone mentioned moo3? hahah….horrible. Edit: haha just before I posted this

Galciv 3 is pretty good though…haven't spent enough time with it…it is not under development anymore it is released.


I would love a new space empires with all the options of 4.

rune_74 said:

Galciv 3 is pretty good though…haven't spent enough time with it…it is not under development anymore it is released.

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Good to know, thanks. Missed that somehow. I'll have to give it a spin for real sometime, then. Just....too....many....games....to play...

rune_74 said:

What? Noone mentioned moo3? hahah….horrible. Edit: haha just before I posted this

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Yea I tried that game as well, that is all I am willing to speak of it

Thanks all for the recommendations. I checked out some of the games you guys mentioned and noticed that i already have GalCiv II, Crusader Kings II and Master of Magic in my steam library! Since I am in the mood for space,I think I will have go at GalCiv II first.

lostforever said:

My bad 4X game! Any recommendation for good space based 4X game for someone new to genre?

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MoO 2 is the obvious response if we want to stick to the thread title but there are other interesting games in the genre. One of my all time favorite would be Stars ! A shareware game that is hard to find and run on modern rigs. Easier to find and run is Imperium Galactica 2 Alliances (the first one can be skipped) which is available on GoG for a cheap price. This one was published more recently (circa 2000), has more than decent graphics for the period, it's easy to grab but has reasonably deep mechanics with lots of campaign games introducing different races with fairly different caracteristics (appearance, ships and diplomatic behaviors) which provide a really interesting variety of gameplay. It's a real time strategy game with fully pausable settings (you can give orders, build your economy, etc. while the game's paused). It has nice dynamical battles and a fair 3D representation of the different planets. Really, a nice game

Capt. Huggy Face said:

Good to know, thanks. Missed that somehow. I'll have to give it a spin for real sometime, then. Just….too….many….games….to play…

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You and me both….I end up playing 20 minutes here and there of a bunch of games…

Space empires 4 is great if you can still find it anywhere…