BioWare - Zeschuk on JRPGs

Dhruin

Dhruin

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I can see all sorts of arguments in both directions from this...Biodoc Greg Zeschuk has answered a question from Destructoid during the current Mass Effect 2 PR push and here's what he apparently had to say:
"The fall of the JRPG in large part is due to a lack of evolution, a lack of progression," Zeschuk said. "They kept delivering the same thing over and over. They make the dressing better, they look prettier, but it's still the same experience.
"My favorite thing, it's funny when you still see it, but the joke of some of the dialogue systems where it asks, 'do you wanna do this or this,' and you say no. 'Do you wanna do this or this?' No. 'Do you wanna do this or this?' No. Lemme think -- you want me to say 'yes.' And that, unfortunately, really characterized the JRPG."
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More information.
 
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A lot of people would say the same things about Bioware's games (or most PC RPGs), and although they'd have somewhat of a point, it would be just as much an oversimplification as Zeschuk's comments. Also, apparently Bioware thinks enough of the genre to borrow the gambit system from Final Fantasy XII and use it in Dragon Age. I also don't get the comment about the "fall" of the JRPG. The genre is more popular than it's ever been.
 
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Zborno said:
I also don't get the comment about the "fall" of the JRPG. The genre is more popular than it's ever been.
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Didn't you hear? JRPGs, console gaming and PC gaming are all dead.;)
 
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"lack of evolution", lol, that comes from the least inovative RPG dev in our time, that are even moving backwards compared to thier old games (ok, except for graphics/sound).. too funny..
 
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The tactics system in DA:O is taken as much from Bioware's previous games as anything. It's basically an action queue with more details. Yet people still complain that there is no action queue. In any case, I don't see how the implementation of tactics implies that Bioware think anything at all of the JRPG genere, as that's not an integral part, not one of the things that makes a JRPG a JRPG. Functionally similar features exist in RTS as well.
 
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Badesumofu said:
The tactics system in DA:O is taken as much from Bioware's previous games as anything. It's basically an action queue with more details. Yet people still complain that there is no action queue. In any case, I don't see how the implementation of tactics implies that Bioware think anything at all of the JRPG genere, as that's not an integral part, not one of the things that makes a JRPG a JRPG. Functionally similar features exist in RTS as well.
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It may be similar to other systems, but it's exactly the same as the system used in Final Fantasy XII. In FFXII, your party members had behavior patterns you could set by using a condition/action pair, e.g. "If <50% health, then heal". You could also shut them off and control each character, and you gained additional tactics slots as you levelled up, just as in DA. I don't think there's anything wrong with them using it, since it's a great system, but it's odd of them to criticize lack of innovation in the genre while borrowing one of its innovations.
 
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Well, I can't comment on JRPG, since I have never played one. However, although I tend to enjoy Bioware games, it would be nice to see them try something a little bit different sometime - Their skills with dialogue and story and virtual actors applied to a more sandboxy game or a RTS / RPG hybrid could be immensely interesting. To me it seems they could afford a bit more risk, after all the success they had...
 
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Zborno, I'm pretty sure more games than just FF have used that type of AI customization. In fact, I seem to recall BG having a simplified idea of the tactics used in DA:O. You could say FF ripped off the idea from BG... but that would be silly...
 
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Well, this is obviously a matter of taste. I despise JRPGs and I like traditional western CRPGs.

So, if I was closed-minded as the person in the interview, I'd obviously state that they deliver the same thing over and over, and fail to see that it's EXACTLY like what Bioware has been doing since KotOR to eyes that don't favor that particular kind of game.
 
What Dr. Z is saying, I have heard hundreds of times. His perception squares (ha) with my own. I don't think the genre has evolved much. I see much less excitement about these games lately, because of that.

Otoh, since I don't play them much, I could be wrong. Maybe they're innovating on a vast scale, and I just don't see it.
 
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Anderson said:
What Dr. Z is saying, I have heard hundreds of times. His perception squares (ha) with my own. I don't think the genre has evolved much. I see much less excitement about these games lately, because of that.

Otoh, since I don't play them much, I could be wrong. Maybe they're innovating on a vast scale, and I just don't see it.
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Well, I would agree. I don't see any evolution - but that's because I don't care for the genre and they haven't changed what I despise about it.

I have friends who dig this kind of game, and they're always going on about the new combat features and characters systems. But obviously the stories share a certain style and flair - because that's what made them popular in the first place. Also, I suppose the oriental developers might be more grounded in tradition based on cultural differences - though even that is a bit of a stretch.

In any case, I think Bioware should be very careful when talking about significant evolution in their own work - because from where I'm sitting, we're talking devolution if dealing with anything beyond technical sophistication and mass market appeal, and western CRPGs is an area where I know what the hell I'm talking about.
 
Ha! Silly man.

The JRPG is alive in well… it lives on in Bioware's games!!!

All of them post-BG 2 (with the possible exception of KoTOR and only because of the D&D based system) feel more like JRPGs than CRPGs.

Bioware get better and better at presentation (like JRPGs) but focus very little on new gameplay ideas (like JRPGs, Persona 3/4 being the exceptions). The core gameplay (incessant, easy combat - like in most JRPGs) serves only to move the story along (like in most JRPGs).

And JRPGs are far from dead. FFXIII sold 1 million copies in Japan on it's FIRST day of sale the last week or so. I'm sure it will do nearly as well when it gets here.

It's CRPGs that have died a little each year and Bioware is partly to blame.
 
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I have played Final Fantasy VII-XII and every game have completely different mechanics for inventory and powers.
 
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Zeschuk said:
pot-calling-the-kettle-black-734818.jpg
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Evolution of crpgs went down the drain somewhere between Troika shutdown and Oblivion release anyway.
A well put together rehash is the best we can get nowadays and that goes for indie crpgs as well, it seems.
Those starving for something recent and truly inspired should play Braid or Machinarium.
 
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DeepO said:
Evolution of crpgs went down the drain somewhere between Troika shutdown and Oblivion release anyway.
A well put together rehash is the best we can get nowadays and that goes for indie crpgs as well, it seems.
Those starving for something recent and truly inspired should play Braid or Machinarium.
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Cute and creative toys won't suffice :)
 
DeepO said:
The key word here.
No creativity, no evolution.
CRPG scene is currently more-or-less in stagnation.
Business strategies, on the other hand…
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No, the key word was toys.

I don't want a toy, I want a game.

Cute innovation is fine for what it is, but it's not the kind of thing I'm looking for.

I'm looking for things like complex mechanics, challenging gameplay, rewarding exploration, interesting characters, deep plots, moving storylines, freedom of choice, and so on.

Innovation isn't needed for any of those - but when new things are done right, they're great to have. Innovation for the sake of innovation isn't for me, though.
 
In B2, I think?, you could set up a script? that made your mage cast 3 or 4 different spells at the same time or drink a health potion when her health was down to 25% or 50%, I think? The Tactics System in DA: Origins could be seen as an expansion of this system.

Storytelling wise, I do think that Bioware seems to have been making the same game over and over again from at least Kotor or Jade Empire. There's always an ancient threat, you're always the hero, which is about to save the day. How the story is told differs greatly, but I find that the plot is about the same.
 
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DArtagnan said:
No, the key word was toys.
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Gotcha.
Semantics aside, I´ve mentioned those two because I consider them good examples of recent games successfully evolving their respective genre.
The point was I had to mention non-rpg titles since among rpgs I couldn´t find anything equivalently "evolutionary".

DArtagnan said:
I'm looking for things like complex mechanics, challenging gameplay, rewarding exploration, interesting characters, deep plots, moving storylines, freedom of choice, and so on.
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Yeah, having all these together in one game would definitely be step in a good direction for rpgs :).
 
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