D
DArtagnan
Guest
Well then, let's review, shall we? I've taken the liberty of bolding. Quote #1 clearly establishes that you equate gun ownership with the problems. Thus, direct causation. Quote #2 introduces the hedge of "easy access", which is a complaint about the application of gun ownership rather than gun ownership in and of itself. Now, I demonstrated that "easy access" is, in fact, a largely false accusation since the requirements to legally own a gun in the US are remarkably similar to the requirements to legally own a gun in Germany. So, not only did you hedge back from direct causation, but you did so on a factually inaccurate basis.
No, let's stick to reality - which I know a bit better, seeing as I wrote the words in question. I said, as the very first thing, that WESTERN culture is severely fucked up. This, by the way, does not mean that other cultures aren't fucked up. It just means that I know western culture enough to feel confident in speaking my mind about it. To me, it's fucked up - in a very big way.
Now, imagine those words are there for a reason. I'm not the kind of person to write things that I don't think are relevant. This means that bit about the guns isn't the only thing I said - and as such, is far from the only problem.
I don't know the gun laws in Germany - but I do know the culture of Germany. If it's really true that you can get a gun easily there, then that's a problem. But it's a problem on a much smaller scale - because there's no widespread gun fetish culture, and as such - you won't find guns without needing to look for them.
Given that your bait was factually inaccurate, do you consider the data valid, even if we accept the explanation?
I have no idea what you're talking about. There's no test of validity for what I said. You can't dig up a single example of another country with lax gun laws - or that you imagine to be lax - and pretend that gun laws are excluded as a significant factor. Only someone without capacity for logic would do that.
As was pointed out, this is also factually inaccurate based on the real-world situation in Mexico, where rigid gun control hasn't accomplished squat, and might have even made matters worse. Do you honestly believe that the kind of person that's willing to shoot someone is going to give two shits about whether he's got a license to carry?
It's not the license to carry - it's the easy access to purchase or get your hands on them through other means. You need to think harder about what happens. If your frontier/wild west heritage means you think guns are cool, then a lot of people will want to have guns. If it's easy to get a license - then a lot of people will have guns, and if a lot of people have guns - there are a lot of guns up for sale or alternate means of switching hands. See? It's not just about the laws - but the laws are what we can change.
I haven't said Mexico is a wonderful place - and I'm not sure why it's relevant. I'm not saying America is the only country in the world with issues - or that gun laws are the only reason for issues worldwide. Again, you need to separate issues and stop pretending everything is black and white, and all the factors can disappear if you want to get at the truth.
But that's not a systemic problem of US laws as you are stating, since our laws for legal gun ownership are largely the same as yours. If you want to rail against an overarching cultural disregard for the law in America, then you'd definitely be on to something, but that has only tangential connection to legal gun ownership.
Say what? What world are you living in? Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a gun around here?
I'm talking about the cultural acceptance of firearms in America. I have no problem with that specific cultural aspect - and in fact I think there are good things about it. The reason it's a problem, though, is that a LOT of people are not in their right minds and a lot of people (well, far too many - anyway) are starting to think it's ok to shoot other people. That's part of modern western culture - and America is at the forefront of this sickness - again, without excluding other cultures around the world. That's because you're still in power, culturally, and you're in the leadership position regarding mass consumption of entertainment. Hollywood is a key factor in all of this, and unfortunately - people with mental health issues find inspiration in what they watch or perceive. That's movies, TV, games, and so on.
No, Hollywood isn't to blame - and entertainment isn't evil. It's how all the factors combine to generate a very sick society - where things get confused. Then, you have VERY easy access to firearms - and you can see the results for yourself.
The problem with firearms - as opposed to other means of killing, is that they're extremely deadly and convenient. It takes nothing, physically, to gun down other people - and you can easily end yourself if that's your plan - or you can easily escape because you have the means to control everyone. That's the real problem with firearms - because people always choose the path of least resistance and guns are exactly that if you want your pain reflected on innocent people.
Last edited: