Grimoire - Crowdfunding campaign at indiegogo

DeepO said:
Rather childishly speaking, your debating situation.
Since you´re pretty vocal supporter of both Shaker and Cleveland M. Blakemore, I have to say I´m quite looking forward to developments you´ll come with in your posts :).
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I'm not sure how that was childish to point out hypocrisy, but ok. I see what you are up to now.
 
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For the record, I want grimoire the game, don't know cleve at all.
 
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Heh, "Stones of Arnhem". coz a Wizardry title would be named after a Dutch city. Can't get much more obviously fake than that.

HiddenX said:
We crpg entusiasts on the 'Watch, the 'Codex, NMA … have to support programmers like Cleve - this is the only way our niche hobby (hardcore crpgs) will survive.
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Nah. Maybe five years ago you could've made that argument. The indie RPG scene is currently so rich I don't even have enough of a budget to spend on worthwhile, quality titles, either released or on Kickstarter. The situation just isn't nearly desperate enough that I have to deal with people like Cleve anymore, it's a rich, successful market, both in independently released, Kickstarter and even work from guys like Larian.
 
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Not to mention that overlooking quality and/or service and simply supporting anything has a better chance of damaging the genre than improving it.

Do we really want to send the message that we are willing to suffer decades of verbal abuse and broken promises in order to, hopefully, get a decent game?


rune_74 said:
You know whats funny?

He said the same things many(not everyone deepO) of you have said here, albiet on their kickstarter and pretty harshly.
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There's a difference between offering criticism, that can be constructive or even an indirect way of showing support (there's a reason why good creators don't avoid or even encourage criticism - Cleve desperately needs to understand that) and taking advantage of whatever authority you think you might have in order to purposely humiliate someone in their own home.

The fact that we here are on 'neutral ground' and that we only speak as gamers, make even the harshest of comments an expression of dissatisfaction, and therefore tolerable, and not a direct personal attack.
 
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Nobody has to support a psychopath like Cleve. He's a bigot, a nutjob and an asshole.

Plus how many RPG's are coming out in the next two years that pander directly to our interests? 8000? 9000? We're good. I literally can not believe he's got a few thousand out of this scam already. We're all supposed to be better than this!
 
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/sarcasm on/ Oh yes - we have countless party, turn based combat hardcore crpgs out there in recent years /sarcasm off/

I count exactly two that crossed my radar (*)
Knights of the Chalice
Telepath RPG Servants of God

Inquisitor - old school, but not turn based.

(*) other than Jeff Vogel games
 
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HiddenX said:
Wizardry 6 looks like shit since release date - still one of my favorite games (played it 3 times) - nice graphics are cool, but there are not a vital necessity for a good dungeon crawler.
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Its not hi res, nor is the color depth very high (16 colors IIRC) but its all very consistent in theme & style. Many of these games look like their creators went to a stock art website and bought a random assortment of assets and threw them together. Assets for the environment don't match creatures, interface assets don't match either one, etc.

Look at Knights of the Chalice. Low res graphics that no one is going to be giving major awards for, but yet all very consistent. It actually looks like an "old school" game rather than a hobbyist's poor attempt at recreating an "old school" game.
 
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Ok so I finally decided to give in and read through Cleve's blog posts after reading some of the hateful, self-destructive and foolish postings he made in the Shaker kickstarter comments section. Whoa. Had thought the reactions to Cleve were a bit exaggerated but I guess I understand them a bit more now.

And yes regardless of whether you agree with any of the individual assertions he made in the Shaker post they were still hateful, foolish, and self-destructive. Posting something like that in a potential competitor's funding page - particularly because their potential as a competitor implies an overlap of your potential audience - serves nothing besides ones own self-satisfying desire to be heard raging. It does this at the cost of alienating potential customers, demonstrating one's instability and lack of competence as far as planning and business go, and gives reason to question whether one is stable enough to last long enough (financially or mentally) to fulfill your promises.

The apocalyptic and racial-extinction fantasies that permeate his blog posts make me wonder if any incentive will actually be enough to focus him on finishing his game. He said that is why he is doing this, in part; he said he wanted to have thousands of contractors to which he is obligated to provide a product by a deadline to motivate him to finish. If he believes that most of his customers and most of the infrastructure required to distribute his product are likely to be eradicated in what he sees as inevitable race-wars and cataclysm then I do have doubts he would find such an incentive all that motivating. Beyond the offensiveness of some of his views it is far more the bleakness that causes me to doubt his chances of success. A creative endeavor such as this does often benefit from a degree of optimism - or at least belief that the world will still be around when you plan to finish.
 
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I agree. What's needed are more people like Jay Barnson, who is not only an Indie developer, but a supporter and promoter of other Indie games.
 
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Corwin said:
I agree. What's needed are more people like Jay Barnson, who is not only an Indie developer, but a supporter and promoter of other Indie games.
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For your comparison to be complete you would need to mention that Jay is also not a giant douchebag.
 
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I say:

We need more Indie CRPG promoters and Indie-CRPG buyers.
 
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Ive read the blog posts, and unlike most here that have their panties all in a bunch about it - i think its pretty damn funny! I actually was chuckling pretty good there a few times.
This isnt life and death, people. Its video games. It's a nerd war. This is the kind of shit that you laugh about at the end of the day.

Yeah, he very well may be a sociopath - so what. Some of the greatest works of entertainment have come from the insane!
 
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xSamhainx said:
Yeah, he very well may be a sociopath - so what. Some of the greatest works of entertainment have come from the insane!
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Because crazy people might not be the most reliable ones to give your money before they've released a finished product?
 
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