Siege of Dragonspear - Review @ RPS

Myrthos

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Richard Cobbett has taken a deep look at Siege of Dragonspear for Rock, Paper, Shotgun and is reasonably positive about the results:

With Siege of Dragonspear, Beamdog has come on a long way. It’s not perfect, either at matching the style or being a great new RPG in its own right, and future games will need some heavy QA loving. But, as the company’s first big attempt to both follow in BioWare’s wake (the presence of former BioWare people notwithstanding), it’s a good start and at least a good first step to one day giving us that Baldur’s Gate 3 we’ve been waiting so long for – another nostalgia trip, but with a slightly more practiced eye on the future.
Obviously, no review can be made without commenting on the chain of events that took place in the last days since its release.

There’s already been a lot of talk online about certain elements of the writing, so let’s address that before moving on to the bigger picture. One of the members of the camp is a transgender woman, Mizhena, who has exactly one short dialogue entry on the subject when asked, followed by the player character going “Okay,” and changing the subject. The controversy around this character isn’t a mountain out of a molehill, but a mountain out of an empty prairie. The rest of the game also includes female characters like Corwin, a single mother who serves as an archer and regrets duty keeping her away from her daughter. It also adds Voghiln, a skirt-chasing skald who cheerfully hits on every female member of the cast.

Like most RPGs, Siege of Dragonspear is a game that celebrates diversity because whatever else it means and whatever the author’s reason for specific inclusions, it means more interesting games. There are no long lectures here, no pointed quests about the subject (unlike, say, Dragon Age Inquisition’s very on-the-nose stuff with Dorian). Siege of Dragonspear makes no more particular fuss about anything than any other RPG that features quests where you do things like, say, try and understand complex issues before acting violently, bring together groups separated by ignorance or mistake, stand up for the weak… y’know, the horrible ‘SJW agenda’ which used to simply be called ‘being a fucking hero’. Oh, and also the kind of thing that’s been a stock part of the RPG genre since Ultima VI took on racism back in 1990.
More information.
 
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Those comments under the review sure degenerated fast...
 
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I was thinking it was all overblown until I read about the changes to existing characters and the commentary on why that was done. And now I'm weary without even having played it. Beamdog misstepped in my opinion. I'm glad they removed Minsc's out of character line that was simply there to pick a fight, but they shouldn't have deemed that existing characters' personalities were "wrong" and in need of "fixing" in the first place.
 
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@Kobu I'm in total agreement. Apparently Cobbett overlooked the fact that Richard Garriott created Ultima and could do whatever he wanted. Beamdog is following in the footsteps of Bioware's work and made some serious errors.

Beamdog can do whatever they want when it is 100% their game and not DLC or Baldur's Gate 3.
 
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Well...

BioWare is now a fully-owned sweatshop of EA. Would we prefer that EA have full artistic license over the direction of the Baldur's Gate Saga?

Everything evolves. Companies, people, culture, and attitudes. Do we expect that the characters of BG would not have been changed by their experiences? Would they be locked into the same beliefs and behaviors?

It still seems like a lot of drama over very little. Everyone go back to your real lives and remember this is just a $20 game.
 
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but they shouldn't have deemed that existing characters' personalities were "wrong" and in need of "fixing" in the first place.

Nobody at Beamdog ever said that characters had wrong personalities that needed fixing. They said they needed fleshing out because they were one-dimensional. All the old characters got some loving, it wasn't just those mentioned in an certain interview might I add.

As for what was done in the game, you probably should read stuff from people who actually played the expac. There is plenty of info in this thread.
 
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A lot of fuss over nothing, IMO. I think their only error was in responding to the fuss and making changes. Should've ignored it, changed nothing, waited for the mob to get bored, and waited for the review aggregations to be redressed by genuine reviews.
 
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A lot of fuss over nothing, IMO. I think their only error was in responding to the fuss and making changes. Should've ignored it, changed nothing, waited for the mob to get bored, and waited for the review aggregations to be redressed by genuine reviews.

I would agree but only up to a point. Permitting anything 'Gamergate' into the dialogue is quite obviously immersion breaking and asking for it, whatever your views or sides on the topic. It's just a basic editorial decision making issue that seems abstract to purpose. You probably want some controversy for free advertising and word of mouth, but 'gamergate'? Come on... just let people play a freakin' game in peace for once?
 
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Nobody at Beamdog ever said that characters had wrong personalities that needed fixing. They said they needed fleshing out because they were one-dimensional. All the old characters got some loving, it wasn't just those mentioned in an certain interview might I add.

As for what was done in the game, you probably should read stuff from people who actually played the expac. There is plenty of info in this thread.

The complaints of BG1 characterizations followed by the statement about a "personality upgrade" is simply communicating it poorly then? Because that came off really poorly.
 
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All the reactions seem overblown to me.

Remember the internet is the only place the hateful homophobes and mysognists can get away with spewing their bile without any consequences. So they do it. They are not representative of the general public at all. It's best to simply ignore them.

OT, the review is packed with information. Quite good, especially coming from RPS. :)
 
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If anyone is reacting its because they expect a high standard from the Baldurs Gate series (which is not unreasonable for a revered property) and for the property to be treated with respect (and the fans). So when fans see the property treated poorly they react.

Everything evolves. Companies, people, culture, and attitudes. Do we expect that the characters of BG would not have been changed by their experiences? Would they be locked into the same beliefs and behaviors?

Its an interquel. Would you expect personality to be suddenly very different considering that chronologically bg2 is yet to come? Consistent characterisation is important.
 
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The complaints of BG1 characterizations followed by the statement about a "personality upgrade" is simply communicating it poorly then? Because that came off really poorly.

Upgrade means adding to, not changing. Saying that, it was poorly communicated.
 
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Its an interquel. Would you expect personality to be suddenly very different considering that chronologically bg2 is yet to come? Consistent characterisation is important.

Perhaps there will be changes in a future BG2 patch for reasons of continuity? Not remotely likely. Still not a big deal to me. I'm not staying awake at night.

I voted with my wallet and purchased the deluxe edition in order to:

  1. Get the soundtracks
  2. Support Beamdog
Others are free to act however they see fit.
 
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Perhaps there will be changes in a future BG2 patch for reasons of continuity? Not remotely likely. Still not a big deal to me. I'm not staying awake at night.

I voted with my wallet and purchased the deluxe edition in order to:

  1. Get the soundtracks
  2. Support Beamdog
Others are free to act however they see fit.
Only thing BG2 is getting is same character record UI like Bg1EE and SoD and in some future one of the new NPCs from SoD.
 
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Upgrade means adding to, not changing. Saying that, it was poorly communicated.

I don't think you could find a definition of "upgrade" that didn't include change and improve upon. Says to me the original wasn't good enough and needed fixing. Them's fightin' words. Not really, but I didn't get a good impression from how it was stated.
 
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All the reactions seem overblown to me.

Remember the internet is the only place the hateful homophobes and mysognists can get away with spewing their bile without any consequences. So they do it. They are not representative of the general public at all. It's best to simply ignore them.

OT, the review is packed with information. Quite good, especially coming from RPS. :)

So everyone who doesn't care for what this writer and Beamdog did is racist? How original. So basically your saying agree with them/me or your a racist. Got it.
 
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Nobody at Beamdog ever said that characters had wrong personalities that needed fixing. They said they needed fleshing out because they were one-dimensional. All the old characters got some loving, it wasn't just those mentioned in an certain interview might I add.

As for what was done in the game, you probably should read stuff from people who actually played the expac. There is plenty of info in this thread.

I disagree, the writer said the original game was sexist towards women and implied they would fix it. That's not evolving, that's looking to be offended and reacting with your own agenda. She used Jaheira as an example and said she was portrayed as a nagging wife, which is ridiculous. Jaheira while at times annoying was stoic and brooding and had emotional scars from war and didn't suffer fools lightly. If we're going to go there then Khalid was a negative portrayal of men and you could also say that about Minsc. One a spineless wimp and the other a brainless oaf.

I find it irritating that all the criticism of those who don't like it is always those danged bigots….I could care less what peoples sexual orientations are, its how it was handled to drive an agenda I don't like. Are some negative reactions from people who are anti-lgbtq? Sure, but not all of them.

All this being said I agree its overblown. I will be spending my money elsewhere as that is my choice, just as its beamdogs choice to include that stuff in the game.
 
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