Spiderweb Games - How Jeff Vogel Saved the Gaming Industry Overnight

Oblivion's engine I don't think has been used in other games (not talking about DLC or expansions). Same with, pretty much every MMO out there, and how many games are out using The Witcher's engine (again, not expansions), or even Risen, which is supposed to be the same Genome engine from Gothic 3 yet it was almost 'rewritten from scratch'.

I'm talking about taking the same engine, no modifications, and just create new games with it, with a different setting (sci/fi instead of fantasy, or steampunk), different textures, story, etc. That's just not happening.

Well, Oblivion's "engine" is a certain iteration and use of Gambryo - Which was Morrowind before and Fallout 3 and F:NV are now. I don't call this unused.

The Witcher's engine is a different story, though. The underlying script engine was licensed from Bioware, the graphics technology was developed inhouse. I think that there is not much documentation there to sell the tech to other companies, especially because noone was keen on the engine - I remember reviewers calling the graphics "dated".

And AFAIK Risen does not use Genome, but I may be wrong.

If you want something like this, then you'll have to leave it to the community. Look at NWN or The Witcher - there is a lot of MOD material that count as fully new games…
 
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Oblivion's "engine" is a certain iteration and use of Gambryo

That's acctually the same engine as Divinity 2 uses ( among a lot of other games).

I'm talking about taking the same engine, no modifications, and just create new games with it, with a different setting (sci/fi instead of fantasy, or steampunk), different textures, story, etc. That's just not happening.

I don't think that would work out. Sure an engine like Unreal Engine 3.0 is really generic, but the developrs still have to write a lot of game specific code, almost no matter which game they want to do… and I for one am thankfull of that as the industry keep evolving… HOWEVER I think they focus on the wrong thing as mentioned before…. their main focus should be to modify the engine to improve the gameplay not to improve the graphics.

It so happens though that there is a huge community all making games with RPGMaker…. but that's a bit different, they all have more or less the same ( text-based ) choice combat. old 2D J-rpg perspective etc etc. which makes this a lot easier… basically the engine contains a template to make such a game it even comes with a bunch of 2d tile graphics and other stuffs. I played a bunch of these games and some are really good… they have to focus a lot on the story, characters etc, and they don't need so much resources and they don't even need a programmer.

But it gets old…… I found it harder and harder for me to get into RPGMaker games even if it has a great story and so on…. because I just feel like replaying the same thing again and again, and I am just so tired of it by now.
 
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Oblivion is using Gamebryo and so are even some Indie titles released in the past and posted about on this site as well.

Anyways, I don't know why people hate Unreal 3 engine so much. I am no Epic fan and despise Gears of War as much as I did HALO, but doesn't mean I don't see the reason behind every possible studio ignoring Crysis, idTech 4 or Source for U3.

Simply put, U3 engine works fine, just fine. Unlike Crysis or any other unproven tech, U3 has countless titles on different platforms. Most of these titles when not using any third party addons work flawlessly without any issues. Not to mention the powerful toolset U3 comes with, which makes it a blessing for artists (who don't have to depend on programmers to do the scripting part most of the time in the levels/missions).

In comparison, Crysis comes a bit close with proper toolset but U3 blows it apart with KISMET which, like I said, makes it a blessing for artists. idTech 4 comes second and Source editor from my experience is best left alone at Valve HQ.

Now in future, idTech 5 will be what most likely be when the empire strikes bac.. err, I mean return of the id Software. These engines are bought not cause how cool the tech demos made in them are (Crysis) but what the toolset and specific features (Megatexture) deliver while designing the game. Features like KISMET and Megatexture are a big plus for artists, which means only 10 times better looking or better working levels/missions. Crysis 2 still doesn't offer anything special except for the shiny new editor in comparison.
 
but you guys (except GG) keep thinking I'm talking about 3d engines. I'm talking about game engines (including or not the 3d engine). Again, think of the gold boxes. They were the same *game* engine, which was used for many games. Same options, same layout, same interface. In one game you had a fireball, in another you had a grenade, but underneath it all it was basically the same. The settings were wildly different, so were the stories. Like GG said, RPG Maker was like that, but how old is it?
Nowadays, every game pretty much builds its own engine, maybe with luck it's reused (sort of) for 1 sequel, let alone different games on different settings.
 
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Now, I haven't played any Gold Box games, but that sounds pretty dull.. I mean, it would be OK if they made 4 or 5 games which are played the same, but any more than that… boring.
But a new engine is a new game and a game on an old engine is just a classy MOD you're paying for.
If it's a good mod (if it's as much fun as a completely new game), then why not pay for it? I doubt fan-made mods ever get close to the original game's quality.
 
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Now, I haven't played any Gold Box games, but that sounds pretty dull.. I mean, it would be OK if they made 4 or 5 games which are played the same, but any more than that… boring.

I don't know, I think that is an acquired taste - after all, paper and printed ink have served well for transporting stories for over 550 years. I think the Graphics tech train will keep rolling for a while yet, but with diminishing returns (I think this is visible already now (witness the success of the wii, relative poor performance of Crysis, etc.) eventually games / digital interactive media will have to concentrate more on content, story, AI and gameplay again to compete on the market.
 
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but you guys (except GG) keep thinking I'm talking about 3d engines. I'm talking about game engines (including or not the 3d engine). Again, think of the gold boxes. They were the same *game* engine, which was used for many games. Same options, same layout, same interface. In one game you had a fireball, in another you had a grenade, but underneath it all it was basically the same. The settings were wildly different, so were the stories. Like GG said, RPG Maker was like that, but how old is it?
Nowadays, every game pretty much builds its own engine, maybe with luck it's reused (sort of) for 1 sequel, let alone different games on different settings.

I see what you mean.

It reminds me of the (A)D&D concept of one rule system, many worlds". Which wouldn't work with TDE, for example.
In TDE, worlds and rule sets are more or less hard-coded into one another.

I once asked an employee whether the underlying Engine of Drakensang - NOT the graphical representation ! - could be exchanged, so, that a ifferent rule system could be used for it (I was thinking of TDE 3rd edition).
She said basically "yes", but I haven't seen any mods trying to do it yet - and no examples by Radon Labs as well.

If an engine could be exchanged, then the graphical representation could remain the same, but for example user-generated rule sets could also be used. That's my dream.

This would in the essence mean that both graphical representation and underlying engine implementing the rules could be seen as two different things, perhaps even fully distinct from one another.

I do see a market there with user-generated or commercial rule sets sold as underlying rule-set-engines for games - for graphical representations, that is.

But since - and as long as they are - rule systems are only licensed, the licensing companies will sit on them like hens on theior eggs. They won't share their rule systems, because they consider them intellectual property that must be protected from ANY other use other than they allow.

So - this means that we'll never see games - read: graphical representations - with different rule sets. Atari won't give it aways - at least as long as no-one is paying them for it - and similar things can be expected from TDE, Midard ... except the generical D20 rule set (and perhaps the D6 set from West End Games, it the plan to release it in a similar fashion like the D20 set ever becomes true).
 
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I'm interested in seeing what the Element: War of Magic engine can really do when it's released. The Temple of Apshai style mod Brad Wardell is proposing to make points to tradition CPRG possibilities. At least the cloth map concept and the assets associated with is appear easy to modify: change of few PNGs, edit a few xml files, and hey presto - Middle Earth, or Earthsea, or Warhammer's Old World, or the Forgotten Realms ...
 
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I'm interested in seeing what the Element: War of Magic engine can really do when it's released. The Temple of Apshai style mod Brad Wardell is proposing to make points to tradition CPRG possibilities. At least the cloth map concept and the assets associated with is appear easy to modify: change of few PNGs, edit a few xml files, and hey presto - Middle Earth, or Earthsea, or Warhammer's Old World, or the Forgotten Realms …

Thoroughly excited about the whole Elemental project, I can see it being an absolutely amazing game and they've clearly designed from the ground up with an engine that'll have years of life in it after release.
 
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Yup, I'm hyped for Elemental. This may be the first game I'll try my hand at modding. It'll take me back to happy hours of my childhood spent drawing fantasy maps.
 
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I couldn't post at the blog-site without registering on one of a slew of crap hippie nonsense other sites so I'll post here and fake its there:

I just want to say that I've been saying this forever. This theory is called sunk cost in economics. I never could wrap my mind around it, being so naturally frugal.

Anyway, I'm an avernum guy more than an genforge guy, and I think avernum 5 is the only game this decade that can go toe to toe with ToEE when it comes to combat.

Anyway, I've been saying this for years. I'm pure genius yet get no credit. How convenient of you damn hippies. No one will be sparred during the revolution!
 
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