Fallout 4 - On the New Combat System

Bethesda made a couple of small modifications to the combat system in Fallout 4, Todd Howard told The Telegraph. All for the better, of course.

By his own admission, Howard has said that the gunplay in Fallout 3 was not as good as it could have been. One of the main criticisms of that game’s action was that its blend of first-person shooting and behind the scenes stat-crunching that characterises RPGs leant too heavily on the latter. You would line up what looked to be a clean headshot, only for the game to decide you had missed because your abilities were not high enough.

Fallout 4 doesn’t shy away from statistics and dice-rolling —it remains an RPG first and foremost, says Howard— but one of Bethesda’s goals was to “make it feel great as an action game.” If you’re good at aiming, says Howard, you can compensate somewhat for lower stats. But not entirely, as Fallout’s myriad systems are layered on top of the improved action.

VATS has been tweaked. In Fallout 3, when you entered VATS the game would pause as you lined up shots to specific body parts, with the percentage chance of a clean hit displayed on each limb. In 4, VATS allows the action to continue at a very slow pace. “We found some ways to make it a bit, not a ton, but a bit more dynamic,” says Howard.

“It’s very, very slow and you’ll see the percentages change because the person is moving behind or coming out of a wall. So queuing up the shot at the right time matters. And while the playback is happening, the criticals are not random, you assign which shot is the critical one and you load up that bar. So it’s a little bit more under your control, not a lot, but just enough to make it feel better.”

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The game will rely on player's reflexes and not "numbers"?
Sounds more like a shooter and not RPG.

joxer said:

The game will rely on player's reflexes and not "numbers"?
Sounds more like a shooter and not RPG.

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Like tw3?

It’s very, very slow and you’ll see the percentages change because the person is moving behind or coming out of a wall. So queuing up the shot at the right time matters.

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Yesssss!!!

Great. Another game off my wish list.

joxer said:

The game will rely on player's reflexes and not "numbers"?
Sounds more like a shooter and not RPG.

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You mean Fallout 3 was not a shooter?

/confused

This is good news in my book because you cannot really make a rpg based around shooting use random rolls. I like it more how Vampire Bloodlines did it with the crosshair dancing and taking long time to become small and all that depending on how good was your firearms skill. Although people complained about it, that was the proper way to implement RPG stats into a shooter gameplay that was F3 and is F4

Yeah is one of my beefs with FO3 too, would have much much much preferred the crosshairs (or even better irons sites) moving around depending on your skill level instead of the way they went. Time will tell.


-kaos

yes ironsights/crosshair changing is the way to rpg-ize a "shooter".

I spent way too much time tweaking FO3 to get it working the way I wanted and even way more time on NV (since they changed some things in the mod kit that made it much harder than just changing values). I also put all gun damage on maximum at all times. In a game like this, I think character skill should affect aim, not gun damage. Shooting a guy in the face at level 1 shouldn't do more damage than when you shoot him at lvl 30.

They could also implement a few things, combat stat related
Strength...more steady aim with heavy weapons, reduces recoil, especially with things like shotguns
Dexterity...faster draw and firing rate
Endurance...longer sprint duration, longer sniper rifle "hold your breath freeze"
Perception...more precise and quicker crossfire
Intelligence...Higher Vats percentage rate

So since it's a shooter can rpgwatch exclude it now from the news lists?

Saxon1974 said:

So since it's a shooter can rpgwatch exclude it now from the news lists?

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If you dislike it that much, you can always choose not to read it.

joxer said:

The game will rely on player's reflexes and not "numbers"?
Sounds more like a shooter and not RPG.

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I admit by trying to tighten up the shooting mechanics they could easily lose or reduce the RPG feel of the game.

My question would be, "Can a game be an RPG if it relies heavily on player aiming abilities?" I can see how character stats could be used to affect a variety of attributes for the VATS system. Even in real time stats could be used to have a more steady scope for example. A player that can time the shot in a wobbly scope can still make the shot without sinking as many points into say endurance. But every point into endurance would wobble the shake. BoboTheMighty already touched on some of these.

If I were attempting to tighten up the shooting mechanics I might try to do it with things like recoil dampening (strength), scope/iron sight wobble (endurance), etc.

The deal, since Fallout 3, is when a player is presented with a shooter like interface they will expect shooter like feedback. It is weird to put the crosshairs on a target pull the trigger and have it miss based on stats you cannot experience in the form of feedback. I think with Fallout 4 (since they are staying with the fps feel of the game) that feedback within the shooting mechanics like wobble, recoil, and sway could be affected by character stats. This would give the player live feedback and the stats would still come into play. It is a common mechanic used in other shooters that incorporate progression, familiarity systems, or exp systems.

I think it could be done in a way to keeps stats important. It really depends on how they decide to do it and/or how far they go with the changes.

The Wasteland 2 kickstarter video does come to mind though….
Studio Guy: Let's talk about a few minor tweaks.
Brian: I don't want to stray too far from the original.
Studio Guy: Oh no, these are just tiny modernizations.
Studio Guy: We would like it to be a first person shooter.
Brian: Excuse me?

Saxon1974 said:

So since it's a shooter can rpgwatch exclude it now from the news lists?

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There's no reason to exclude it because you don't understand it.

It's interesting that people seem to think that character-driven gameplay must be about combat.

To me, character-driven gameplay can be anything, including the ability to persuade people, to steal, to sneak, to jump, to detect, to hack, to pick locks, to heal and so on.

I don't know why it has to be about combat prowess.

If the character doesn't dictate combat performance, it can't be an RPG?

Such a limited view, in my opinion.

Some games don't do well having traditional skill-driven gameplay, and the original Deus Ex is a good example of why you don't want a combat-oriented agent to suck at combat because you didn't invest in it.

Fallout 4 is obviously about immersing the player in the world, and to have your character miss the target when aiming precisely is counter to such an experience.

Saxon1974 said:

So since it's a shooter can rpgwatch exclude it now from the news lists?

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Anything without a colossal dice on your screen rolling should be excluded from this site.

--According to you

That's simply not it. RPG is about character progression and immersion, not dice-roll combat. Turn-based tactical squad combat like Divinity: Original Sin makes a good RPG, real-time adrenaline pumping action combat (if done right) can also make a good RPG. Not to mention that combat is only a fraction a good RPG. Stop being so narrow-minded and get your facts straight.

Have to add, people please don't misread my initial post.
A shooter/RPG hybrid is nothing new, don't tell me noone played Mass Effect series.
Also a shooter with RPG elements is not a new thing, I'm praising on of such games, FarCry 3, whenever I can.

It can be done well or it can be done badly.
It IMO really doesn't matter if in FO4 the protagonist while in combat won't use their combat skills/stats but player's reflexes instead - what matters is whatever they do, they better make it good.

I was mainly using VATS in FO3/NV because I didn't want to play the game as a shooter. Let's hope they fix the 100% VATS headshots from FO3 and I'm happy with the game. If I want numbers based hardcore RPG-play, there are other options.

This reminds me of the majority of folks hating Morrowind's combat, when I actually loved it. The reason I loved it was because it was 100% an RPG, and 95% of your "stick skillz" didn't matter. If you're character didn't have the Strength to swing that Warhammer, or the proper skill to connect with a target, then you were not going to be able to effectively use that weapon. In turn, all the numbers and RPG systems were right out front in the gameplay.

Of course, that is my preferred RPG game design. I prefer if stick skillz are left out of the equation, and the game relies heavily or wholly on stats and character attributes, perks, etc.

Now, I'm not worried about Fallout 4 because Todd clearly says it's not going to shy away from the RPG elements. I trust that unless something drastic happens at the last minute, the game is still going to resemble an RPG and I'll be able to have fun with it in that realm.

When Fallout 6 or 7 completely removes stats and makes it entirely a first-person shooter game, I will stop playing the series. But who knows? By the time Fallout 6 or 7 come out, RPG elements and Morrowind-style stat-heavy combat could be in vogue again.

You'd stop playing them? I thought you were all about seeing the positive things about games and being happy with the good parts?