RPGWatch - Jay Barnson Interview

We had the chance to talk with Jay Barnson the Rampant Coyote this month about game development, his new novels, and the state of indie RPG games.

How you feel about the game industry, and the current state of Indie games?

Jay Barnson: The industry right now is in a massive state of flux. I've been cheerleading the "indie revolution" for about a decade now, but I wasn't prepared for all the repercussions. I feel a little like that old song by REM - "It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine." The game industry as we've known it is… well, maybe not dead, maybe not even dying, but it's definitely going through some massive changes. I'm not sure what it's going to look like when we're done.

As a gamer, it's phenomenal - look how many games we have to choose from, and on so many platforms! But it's kinda consuming itself right now. There are too many games, and not enough gamers spending enough money on games to sustain what's happening out there. As a gamer, it's thrilling, but as a game developer, it's scary. It's never been easier to make games or get your games out there, but it's as hard as ever trying to actually get noticed by anyone other than your Mom. And my mom is pretty clueless about RPGs, so she's not really my target audience.

One of the issues that we are facing now is the rise of the "big indie." It's not a new problem, and I don't want to even call it a problem, but it's a big issue. We're facing the same kind of escalation in the indie space in terms of budgets and production values that we previously faced in the mainstream biz. What's wrong with that? I mean, on the surface, nothing. I'm as absolutely thrilled by the big, high-quality games that we're now seeing out of places like inXile and Larian and Obsidian right now as everyone else.

But as those budgets rise, so does risk-aversion. We're seeing it start now. I mean, what wins the crowdfunding wars? It's starting to come down to something of a winning formula. I am not complaining too loudly right now, because I happen to like the formula, and it's causing the kinds of games to get funded that I've waited a long time to see. But that won't last forever, and in a couple of years we may once again find ourselves marginalized and optimized out of the equation.

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Nice interview. Thanks to the two of you.

Game-grazer... lol! Me too

It's interesting what Jay said about the shotgun approach to game development, as I immediately thought of Spiders and Neocore, two fairly successful indie'ish studios practicing that approach by all accounts.

Nice interview, guys.

"It's never been easier to make games or get your games out there, but it's as hard as ever trying to actually get noticed by anyone other than your Mom. And my mom is pretty clueless about RPGs, so she's not really my target audience."

Good quote, Rampant.

Thanks to Rampant Coyote and Couch!

I agree that there are too many good games out there - you simply can't play them all.

I've said it before, and it bears repeating - it feels like its the early 90s all over again. I mean, a brand new Might & Magic… a sequel to Wasteland… games in the style of Eye of the Beholder / Dungeon Master / Lands of Lore… a new game in the previously-Ultima Underworld series… Richard Garriott's latest "masterpiece"… Not to mention all the really cool new RPGs and series, and the lesser-known titles (including my own) going out there and piling up faster than people can play 'em.

I was thrilled back then. But then the bottom fell out a couple of years later, and I remember the magazines declaring the RPG genre "dead." The first of a few times. I worry about history repeating itself. When you have 50 gallons of stuff being poured into a 20-gallon barrel, things are going to get messy.

Great interview Couch and Jay.

I always enjoy reading about your unique perspective on game making, and the industry. Do you have any new strategies to get your new game noticed, and separate yourself from the chaff?

Nice interview. Some good points.

About presentation for real ppl - I wonder how many kids were interested in Frayed Knights.

Mr. Barnson, can I ask you what was your initial idea for Frayed Knights? Why humorous dungeon/RPG?

Dean - Still working on that. The industry is changing so fast, it seems that the strategy that works today is overused and ineffective in six months.

I guess it really is more like a marathon than a sprint.

Like you said, make good games and get them out as soon as you can. Build a good reputation.

Oh ya......and bribes......don't forget bribes.

Farflame -

It's tough to recall the exact details, but I'd started one RPG (I still want to make one day) and went a little over-my-head on it, and worked on an arcade game project that turned out to be highly inappropriate for the engine I was using and was gonna require way more effort than I wanted to put into it. And I really wanted to make RPGs (the arcade game was supposed to be a quick & dirty project to help me grok the engine). So....

Since the engine was really optimized for first-person shooters, my thought process was kinda like this:

Q: What would be the most appropriate RPG for this engine that would require a minimum (as it turns out, still a lot) of tinkering with the underlying code to build?

A: A first-person perspective game, of course.

Q: Hmmm... we already have games like Oblivion and stuff kinda owning that, and I don't want to do a poor-man's Oblivion / Two Worlds. What could I do that would be different and fun?

A: Hey, how about something along the lines of the old first-person party-based RPGs? Like the Wizardry, Might & Magic, & Bard's Tale series? You used to LOVE those, and nobody is making games like that anymore! That'd be totally unique! (HAH, HAH - at the time this was true. I'm just going to pretend I'm a trend-setter).

Q: Okay, but what do I have to offer that these older games do not? Why shouldn't someone just download something from Abandonia or GOG.COM and play it instead? I'm not going to make a game that's just a wannabe with slightly more modern graphics / interface.

A: Hey, one of the problems with these old games is that the party feels more like a collection of stats and classes. How about they have personalities? Stuff to make them really stand out, and do more than just fill a role in the party.

And from there, it kinda snowballed. I thought of what kind of personalities they should have, and that made me think of the characters in our tabletop games. Which in turn made me think of a couple of things -

#1 - the old-school gaming experiences when I first started playing D&D, and the "feel" of the role-playing gaming community back then (think Dragon Magazine, 1st edition AD&D, and the early CRPGs).

#2 - Gaming with friends around the table, and their sometimes snarky, out-of-character comments about the world and some of the tropes of role-playing games.

Everything else kind of fell from those two things. From the table-talk idea, I thought of MST-3K. I also thought of things like Knights of the Dinner Table and Order of the Stick, and how there were serious and cool stories told from these comics in spite of (or sometimes because of) the humor.

And I imagined a 14-year-old dungeon master (that'd be me, many years ago) creating what he thought was a super-impressive, original world which was full of the usual weird stuff common in computer & tabletop RPGs in that era, and a group of players "playing along" and having a good time in spite of the glaringly weird things the DM was throwing into the game.

On top of that, I had a story idea many years ago about a fantasy world where the heroes were all acting super-obnoxious and horrible just like they were played in RPGs and MMORPGs - what if you had a world full of people who acted like the avatars in a game like EverQuest or World of Warcraft? Well, okay, maybe not QUITE that bad... I wanted some semblance of morality and reality in there.

Anyway, like I said, everything kinda snowballed from there. The world, the characters, the humor, the weirdness. It's not the magnum opus or anything I imagine in my head sometimes, but I hope some people really get a kick out o it.

And are you goint to continue with snowballing for FK2 or not?

BTW perfect extensive answer. Thanks.

Great interview ! Thank you both.

Frayed Knights is another game that suffers from my huge backlog: loved the demo and purchased the game, but never got to play it after that.

Sometimes I need to dig myself out from under the avalanche, but yes, snowballing is continuing.