We Don't Need No Stinking Pause

Squeek

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The 1948 classic film "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" featured one of the most quotable movie lines of all time where a Mexican outlaw, angry at being confronted with a lie, declares, "Badges? We ain't got no badges! We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinking badges!" There’s similar outrage simmering in the RPG community over the lie called RTwP (Real-Time with Pause), and a dawning realization that we don’t need it.

Real-time is something that applies to the real world and is a bit of an oxymoron in imaginary worlds where reality is asserted. Maybe that’s why it seems so out of place in an RPG. Players who want to be immersed are suddenly jolted back to reality with the sudden inescapable need to pause. Like the Mexican outlaw, that’s not how we wanted it to go, and that’s annoying.

How about some new perspective on what might be considered “real” in an imaginary world? Myself, I'd like to try a taste of unreal reality, maybe altered reality, sugar-coated or honey-glazed reality; but I’m choking here on the real-time real stuff.
 
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But what do you really want? Don't you want/need a pause facility for something other than TB or Phased combat? I certainly do!!
 
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The honest answer is I don't really know what I want. But I'm objecting to the conventional thinking that effective simulation requires real time which in turn requires pause. There's got to be a way to use real-time game mechanics sparingly and in a clever way where the player wouldn't feel the need to incessantly pause.
 
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I know it's only gaming but the "pause" is a somewhat immoral slant on the true real-time concept (eg: let the raging monsters wait while i drink a health potion) Perhaps a dis-incentive such as a rapid decreasing healthbar, experience or money would disuade the incessant pauser?

As a theorectical example, in a game where Corwin saw his money bar decreasing at an alarming rate, he probably wouldn't use "pause" ever again! :D
 
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There are some games which force you to pause and other that don't (such as NWN2). For the former I can offer no solution but for the latter .... if you don't want to pause then er.... don't. I think it's important that people are given a choice. I personally am not a twitch gamer and like the ability to use tactics. As a game progresses then I normally use pause less and less as I become familiar with the controls/abilities. I say keep the pause and then allow people to use self control.

The other issue with pause - have you every tried gaming when you have a wife and two year old? Seriously pause has saved my marriage many times. If I couldn't pause I'd have to decide to ignore my wife or lose the game (choice really depends on the game tbh :biggrin: ). I'd like to see how Fallout 3 handles this idea with the realtime/pause combat system which is menat to be optional.

Just my 2 pennies worth.
 
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If I can't pause it, I don't play it!! :)
 
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The other issue with pause - have you every tried gaming when you have a wife and two year old? Seriously pause has saved my marriage many times. If I couldn't pause I'd have to decide to ignore my wife or lose the game (choice really depends on the game tbh :biggrin: ).
Testify, brother, testify. These women get so irritable when they realize where they rank on the priority list... ;)

Of course, there's no debate needed if the games just go back to turn-based like they should be.
 
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Realtime is just a gaming mechanic like phased combat or TB. Finnish pelit mag had an interesting article* about it this month where they gave credit to age of decadance and compared those who play only flashy realtime games to fat smokers who eat only sugar and are missing the real meat.

I cant post the article because its not available but in short I think hes trying to say that the reason why people play only realtime games is because they have been "teached" to do that by the gaming industry. All the megahits are realtime games. All they see is realtime games. They are not used to playing anything else ("yack! I dont want to play that!").

The reviewer has shown his own kid turn-based games when he was young and he has no trouble playing them. He also mentions japanese games which often have turn-based elements. Apparently they are used to playing them too.

*by nnirvi who has done reviews over for 20 years in two finnish computer/gaming mags
 
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I guess that "we don't need no stinking pause" could be rather be said from those who prefer FPS-style C-RPGs.
 
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My objection to the pause is really an objection to the whole RTwP thing and not an argument for keeping it while simply eliminating the pause. I suppose that might work, but that does seem awfully FPS-like.

What I really have in mind is how games might depict reality differently and in a way where real-time would be less dominated by the pause. One way to start thinking in those terms might be to imagine how an RPG could feature a character who was blind and maybe deaf, because in order to make that work reality would have to be depicted in a whole new way.

I'm of the opinion that video games have the potential to interpret reality in a myriad of ways, many of which could enable mechanics that are better than RTwP.
 
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A pause or turn-based system allows a far more realistic approach to complicated multi-functional actions than a real time system. In a real time system, you pretty much frantically click buttons and hope you've clicked in the right order, whereas with a turn based or pausable system, you can emulate the more complex instinctive and learned reactions your character would, realistically, be capable of, but which you cannot input into the system fast enough.
I don't understand arguements made favouring real time as more realistic, to be honest.

Now, in ways to present reality differently without a pause system, one could always use a system which slows down time, allowing more complex manouevers. That could reflect the ability of the protagonist to carefully consider his actions in response to the actions of others using skill, knowledge and training. With a slowed time mechanic, the player can input the needed commands and still have the reality of the situation reflected reasonably well.
 
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I hate pause, like in BG, love turned based like in wiz. Either have turned based, or pause don't make hybrids.
 
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IMO, every game needs a pause. Without a pause function, then how will I go get something to drink or use the rest room? :p

However, no game should have a pause function as an integral part of gameplay. That's the difference. BG pretty well required the pause because otherwise it was a fighters' click-fest during combat. It still was, but regardless...

Well done games will only include the ability to pause so that the player can take care of out-of-game needs or to deal with the SO.
 
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Did I ever mention how much I LOATHE FPS games!!??!! :) I'm slow to respond, I don't have fast reaction time and I love to THINK about what I want to do and various ways to achieve it. I play a lot of high level Bridge. I much prefer TB games for that reason. I simply can't handle clickfests. By the time I'm ready, I'm usually dead. Pause, at least makes some games playable for me!! If you want continuous action, then play FPS. If you want to use your brain, then RPG's are the answer........ or at least they should be!!
 
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I play a lot of high level Bridge.

Ooh.. those old Bridge ladies can be lethal! Gotta be on your guard around them, particularly if they try and spike the Bridge Mix.
How's your Shuffleboard game these days?

:D

I much prefer TB games for that reason. I simply can't handle clickfests. By the time I'm ready, I'm usually dead. Pause, at least makes some games playable for me!! If you want continuous action, then play FPS. If you want to use your brain, then RPG's are the answer........ or at least they should be!!

Joking aside, I largely agree with this. Turn-based systems are far more strategic and involved as they allow the player to more accurately represent the actions of the in-game character(s). They also allow one player to handle the actions that would, in a real world, real time situation, be handled by many.

Brain use is iffy to be honest.. There have been TB games that are utterly inane and real time games with lots of smarts.
 
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I've had a few instances where I was playing a 'dumbed down RTS' and found myself stomped as I wasn't thinking about what I was doing, expecting a Warcraft-esque clickfest. Once I started thinking, it was incredibly fun and challenging.

I still prefer TBS, because that way I can mutlitask and not worry overmuch about my soldiers being slaughtered mercilessly while I'm unleashing the fires of hell in another game (Yes, I have played 2 or more games simultaneously before) or cooking dinner. Which amounts to unleashing the fires of hell in my kitchen, but I digress. A pause function, however, lets me pull away when I need to, unlike a full real time, no pause available game.

Both TB and RT games can be easy click-fests or difficult strategy games. It all depends on how good (or bad) the designer is.
 
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Ehhh, I do not like realtime, because my chars will die while I go to cook dinner, or tab to another window.... hehe you guys always give a good laugh.
 
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In most games, it's possible to simply press the escape button to open the menu if you have to take care of something away from the computer.

As far as combat systems go, I like everything that's well done, with an overall good feel and decent challenges. My favourite combat system is probably Gothic 2 (using G1 controls), but I certainly don't mind RTwP (KotOR, BG, NWN2, PS:T) or pure TB (HoMM, etc).

It's all about implementation really.
 
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I still don't understand - and will most likely never do so - why people do write an turn-based engine, but make the combat real-time / paused instead - I'm referring to BG.
 
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Because it rules!

I don't care for pure turn based anymore (though still fun to play the classics) and I don't care for full real-time, at least in a party based game. For a single PC game, I can see doing without a pause function, but if you have multiples PC's in your party, it's unreasonable to expect that you can fully manage all of them in real time without a pause.

Real-Time w/ Pause is the only way to go for party based IMO. If you don't like the pause, don't use it.

I know it's only gaming but the "pause" is a somewhat immoral slant on the true real-time concept (eg: let the raging monsters wait while i drink a health potion) Perhaps a dis-incentive such as a rapid decreasing healthbar, experience or money would disuade the incessant pauser?

At least in the infinity games, while it allows you to pause, if you select to drink a potion or whatever, it still doesn't occur until after you unpause and your turn occurs. I would definitely understand being against pausing and being able to do stuff while you have it paused.
 
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