Mass Effect 3 - Scifi Writers Discusses the Ending@ CVG

RPGFool said:

Personally, I would have much preferred to have had the choice to destroy Bioware. Don't know why they didn't offer that alternative.

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That´s the choice Bioware reserved for themselves.
Fittingly enough, they´ll be presenting their pick in a DLC format .

RPGFool said:

Denials and arguments don't change the fact that the Video Game industry is part of the entertainment industry. It's simple. Entertainment. That's why video games exist, and its how video game companies make money.

The ending of ME3 was not only bad; it undercut numerous major elements of Shepard's story, and the entire ME3 story.

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Yes we know, people have been saying over and over. The problem is that the majority of us have encountered this problem so many times before that it no longer means anything to us. It's just another story with a crappy ending, plenty of those around. Have you, for example, heard Terry Pratchett lay into Doctor Who (SEE BELOW)? Did you also hear him say, not two minutes later, that despite all its faults he still couldn't stop watching the show? Doctor Who has far more problems to its story than Mass Effect but the franchise is huge. Why? It's entertainment, and you leave your brain at the door. Young adult novels are extraordinarily popular at the moment, even among older readers, despite these novels having a host of problems ranging from its internal logic to the prose, do the readers care? No. Why? Because young adult novels offer pure unadulterated escapism while adult novels are more into realism and grit. In other words, while adult novels are more itelligent and realistic, young adult novels are entertaining, and the young adult industry is booming. Mass Effect 3 sold more than 2 million copies worldwide in its first month alone and is on its way to becoming easily Bioware's biggest selling game ever. But why? It has an atrocious ending does it not? Yes it does, but it's pure escapism and entertainment personified so most people couldn't give a rats. Diablo 3 has anti-consumer DRM that shits you up the wall, and diluted its loot to promote it's auction house and diluted its skills which reduces replayability. Do people care? Apparently not. Why? Because it's still entertining as fuck.

Entertainment isn't an exercise in the intellectual. It just is.

Pratchett said the popular television programme "breaks most of the laws of narrative". "On planet Earth it's generally taken for granted that it's a bad thing to introduce into a narrative some last-minute solution that was totally unexpected and unheralded … The unexpected, unadvertised solution which kisses it all better is known as a deus ex machina – literally, a god from the machine. And a god from the machine is what the Doctor now is," said Pratchett, a fan of the show since his school days. "A decent detective story provides you with enough tantalising information to allow you to make a stab at a solution before the famous detective struts his stuff in the library. Doctor Who replaces this with speed, fast talking, and what appears to be that wonderful element 'makeitupasyougalongeum'. I don't know about you, but I don't think I would dare try to jump-start a spaceship that looks like the Titanic by diving it into the atmosphere."

"Much has been written about the plausibility or otherwise of the Star Trek universe, but it is possible to imagine at least some of the concepts becoming real. But the sonic screwdriver? I don't think so. Doctor Who's science is pixel thin. I'm sorry about this, but I just don't think that you can instantly transport a whole hospital onto the moon without all of the windows blowing out. Oh! You use a force field, do you?! And there's the trouble; one sentence makes it all OK," he wrote. "I just wish that it was not classified as science fiction."

Despite all this, Pratchett admits that he can't stop watching the programme, which he described as "pure professionally-written entertainment, even if it helps sometimes if you leave your brain on a hook by the door". "I might shout at the screen again, but I will be watching on Saturday," he admitted. "After all, when you've had your moan you have to admit that it is very, very entertaining, with its heart in the right place, even if its head is often in orbit around Jupiter."

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/tvandradioblog/2010/may/04/terry-pratchett-ludicrous-doctor-who

You don't care about the crappy ending. Nevertheless, your taste, or lack thereof, doesn't establish that the majority of gamers don't care. To the contrary, there has been a huge backlash against ME3 (by all those supposedly non-caring gamers).

ME3 was the subject of massive advertising by Bioware. In turn, ME3 sales were high pre-launch and in the first few days after launch. But once gamers found out about the horrible ending and learned of Bioware's misleading advertisements, things changed. Amazon began allowing returns of ME3 with refunds to purchasers. By April, ME3 was heavily discounted by numerous retailers. Deep and widespread discounts don't happen in the first month after launch with games enjoying high sales numbers.

It's a shame really. The Mass Effect franchise had an enormous fan base. Now the franchise has an enormous base of disappointed former fans. At the very best, Bioware managed to convert a solid fan base into a splintered fan base. Despite your claims to the contrary, fans did care about the horrible ending. Even Bioware finally had to admit it.

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Oh, Doctor Who! Such an excellent example. Thank you! Doctor Who is *so* out there, *so* outrageous and I don't even care. Nothing truly makes sense, except that the doctor is awesome, can't possible lose and beats the bad guys at the end by largely unexplained means. And I love it.

So stop whining already.

P.S. Why is it is a problem that in the end the things you helped save get destroyed? That in itself is not a bad thing. What, can't take the feeling of futility?

Sure. BioWare could have drastically boosted sales numbers by advertising ME3 as "An exercise in futility!"

"Do you crave futility? If so Bioware has a real treat for you. That's right, now your cravings can be satisfied! Yes! Mass Effect 3 for the Ultimate in Futility!"

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RPGFool said:

Sure. BioWare could have drastically boosted sales numbers by advertising ME3 as "An exercise in futility!"

"Do you crave futility? If so Bioware has a real treat for you. That's right, now your cravings can be satisfied! Yes! Mass Effect 3 for the Ultimate in Futility!"

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Don't give them any ideas they already used the ending backlash for marketing.

RPGFool said:

To the contrary, there has been a huge backlash against ME3 (by all those supposedly non-caring gamers).

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A small minority of people when considering overall sales. But as usual, a very VOCAL minority.

RPGFool said:

By April, ME3 was heavily discounted by numerous retailers. Deep and widespread discounts don't happen in the first month after launch with games enjoying high sales numbers.

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Happened with Oblivion, which was a game which enjoyed very high sales. I remember seeing shitloads of returns and the game heavily discounted not long after release. I also remember seeing people taunting Bethesda with this fact in that period where their boards were in meltdown. Still was a VERY successful game, and all Bethesda's bad decisions in Oblivion and the number of "rpg" fans they disappointed (boards were in meltdown for almost a year) didn't decrease their fanbase a whit despite what all the whiners were saying.

RPGFool said:

It's a shame really. The Mass Effect franchise had an enormous fan base. Now the franchise has an enormous base of disappointed former fans.

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The sales of Mass Effect 3 swamp those of Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 1. Even if you subtract the number of people protesting the ending of Mass Effect 3 from the sales figures, the sales of ME3 still swamp the sales of ME2 and ME1. Nothing supports your theory that the Mass Effect fanbase has decreased, but there's plenty of evidence around that ME3 has increased the fanbase.

You've made a bunch of assertions with no facts to back them. Not a single fact. Bioware has said only that ME3 sales exceeded ME2 sales for the first month. If ME3 sales had exceeded (much less "swamped") either ME2 or ME1 sales, Bioware would have proudly announced that by now. Instead there's just dead silence.

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RPGFool said:

You've made a bunch of assertions with no facts to back them.

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Hello Mr. Pot...

RPGFool said:

Bioware has said only that ME3 sales exceeded ME2 sales for the first month. If ME3 sales had exceeded (much less "swamped") either ME2 or ME1 sales, Bioware would have proudly announced that by now. Instead there's just dead silence.

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ME3 didn't just 'exceed' ME2 sales in the first month, it demolished them. As in far more than double the sales. There's been no further news on the issue because the issue is aready over, ME3 killed ME2. Why would they release a newsbyte just to repeat the status quo? 'ATTENTION EVERYBODY, just to let you guys know that ME3 is still shitting all over of ME2, kay thnx for listening you can all return to whatever the hell it was you were doing'.

You make a bunch of claims with no facts to back them up. Not one single fact. Even Bioware has never claimed that ME3 sales exceed either ME2 or ME1 sales, much less "swamped" sales of either, or both as you claim. Instead Bioware has said only that ME3's first month sales doubled ME2's first month's sales. An unsurprising and unimpressive result given Bioware's massive (and misleading) advertising campaign for ME3.

If ME3 sales exceeded either ME1 or ME2 sales, Bioware would have proudly announced that by now. Instead Bioware is deadly silent on sales numbers.

Meanwhile, current prices for ME3 are as low as $15-$16, and are still not generating the sales of your dreams.

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Whatever to those who thinks ME3 ending wasn't a big deal.

Let me just remind you, those "small minority" as you call it, actually makes up the large audience. What happens if small minority continue to be unsatisfied and stop caring? Soon, there will be no/small audience left.

RPGFool said:

You make a bunch of claims with no facts to back them up. Not one single fact. Even Bioware has never claimed that ME3 sales exceed either ME2 or ME1 sales, much less "swamped" sales of either, or both as you claim. Instead Bioware has said only that ME3's first month sales exceeded ME2's first month's sales. An unsurprising and unimpressive result given Bioware's massive (and misleading) advertising campaign for ME3.

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Lol, Pots broken record interpretation FTL. Xbox figures for ME2 in NA was 500 000 copies for the first 6 days after release, in the next 30 days ME2 only sold 240 000 copies. Only in your dreams would ME2 be doing better than ME3 because it suffered a similar drop off in sales as ME3 but sold far far far fewer in its first month.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/02/11/january-npd-mass-effect-2-debuts-at-2-hardware-is-down/

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/11/february-npd-xbox-360-and-bioshock-2-sales-heat-up/

RPGFool said:

If ME3 sales exceeded either ME1 or ME2 sales, Bioware would have proudly announced that by now. Instead Bioware is deadly silent on sales numbers.

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They already have. No need to make an announcement to reaffirm the status quo.

RPGFool said:

Meanwhile, current prices for ME3 are as low as $15-$16, and are still not generating the sales of your dreams.

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Same happened with Oblivion, which was an incredibly successful game.

purpleblob said:

Let me just remind you, those "small minority" as you call it, actually makes up the large audience. What happens if small minority continue to be unsatisfied and stop caring? Soon, there will be no/small audience left.

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You get Skyrim's sales figures apparently, considering how all the hardcore rpg fans and Bethesda's core fanbase all vowed to leave after Oblivion.

RPGFool said:

You don't care about the crappy ending. Nevertheless, your taste, or lack thereof, doesn't establish that the majority of gamers don't care. To the contrary, there has been a huge backlash against ME3 (by all those supposedly non-caring gamers).

ME3 was the subject of massive advertising by Bioware. In turn, ME3 sales were high pre-launch and in the first few days after launch. But once gamers found out about the horrible ending and learned of Bioware's misleading advertisements, things changed. Amazon began allowing returns of ME3 with refunds to purchasers. By April, ME3 was heavily discounted by numerous retailers. Deep and widespread discounts don't happen in the first month after launch with games enjoying high sales numbers.

It's a shame really. The Mass Effect franchise had an enormous fan base. Now the franchise has an enormous base of disappointed former fans. At the very best, Bioware managed to convert a solid fan base into a splintered fan base. Despite your claims to the contrary, fans did care about the horrible ending. Even Bioware finally had to admit it.

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Do you believe any of what you wrote? seriously?

drae said:

Lol, Pots broken record interpretation FTL. Xbox figures for ME2 in NA was 500 000 copies for the first 6 days after release, in the next 30 days ME2 only sold 240 000 copies. Only in your dreams would ME2 be doing better than ME3 because it suffered a similar drop off in sales as ME3 but sold far far far fewer in its first month.

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Your dreams… not mine. I just go by facts, and the fact is that even Bioware doesn't claim ME3 sales exceed ME2 sales. Your childish name calling only serves to reinforce the weakness of your arguments.

They already have. No need to make an announcement to reaffirm the status quo.

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Wrong again. To this day Bioware doesn't claim that ME3 sales exceed or "swamp" sales of either ME2 or ME1. That's a fact. Your childish name calling antics won't change the facts BTW. But you are certainly welcome to dream on.

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rune_74 said:

Do you believe any of what you wrote? seriously?

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Sounds like he does. I've made a wager with myself that he's a member of the Codex. It's what they sound like these days.

RPGFool said:

Wrong again. To this day Bioware doesn't claim that ME3 sales exceed or "swamp" sales of either ME2 or ME1. That's a fact. Your childish name calling antics won't change the facts BTW. But you are certainly welcome to dream on.

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They don't need to claim anything when the figures are there for the world to see.

drae said:

They don't need to claim anything when the figures are there for the world to see.

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The only figures are that ME3 sold well for a short while. Bioware hasn't made any claims of good sales except for the sales in March, following a massive advertising campaign by Bioware. Bioware has been completely silent on ME3 sales after March, i.e., the time after gamers found out about the crap ending (back to the subject of the thread).

What the world sees today is that Bioware is rewriting the crappy ending to ME3, and that ME3 is currently selling for as little as $15 (25% of the original price) after less than 3 months.

Your continuing childish attacks, ("CODEX" member???) continue to reinforce the weakness of your assertions.

BTW I don't appreciate the personal attacks. Personal attacks reflect badly on you and on this forum. Please limit any further comments to the subject at hand.

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RPGFool said:

The only figures are that ME3 sold well for a short while.

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Exactly the same with ME2. Except that ME3 had far far far geater sale figures before it started to slow than ME2 did.

RPGFool said:

Bioware hasn't made any claims of good sales except for the sales in March,

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Same for any company and is par for the course for Bioware. You never heard any periodic sales updates for ME2 or Dragon Age Origins, you didn't hear any sales updates for Skyrim, the only type of game you get periodic sales updates for are MMOs, where people like to keep an eye on subscription numbers.

RPGFool said:

Bioware has been completely silent on ME3 sales after March, i.e., the time after gamers found out about the crap ending (back to the subject of the thread).

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Bethesda has been completely silent on Skyrim sales since November last year. They must be doing terribly

RPGFool said:

What the world sees today is that Bioware is rewriting the crappy ending to ME3,

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Because it is a community based developer and they like to keep their fans a little bit satisfied.

RPGFool said:

and that ME3 is currently selling for as little as $15 (a 75% reduction in price) after less than 3 months. That didn't happen with ME1 or ME2 BTW.

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Same thin happened with Oblivion, which was a massively successful game.

RPGFool said:

Your continuing childish attacks, ("CODEX" member???) continue to reinforce the weakness of your assertions.

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Here's another one, these remarks make you sound like a 16 year old poser on a soap box trying to sound like the "bigger man"

Bethesda has made several statements about Skyrim sales. That game kept selling well after initially high sales.

You have backed up nothing you have said with fact, as usual. So much for your claims that ME3 sales have swamped sales of both ME1 and ME2. Again, Bioware doesn't even claim this.

Your childish personal attacks establish your maturity level without any help from me or anyone else.

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RPGFool said:

Bethesda has made several statements about Skyrim sales.

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All within the first month or so of release. After that, nothing.

RPGFool said:

You have backed up nothing you have said with fact, as usual. So much for your claims that ME3 sales have swamped sales of both ME1 and ME2. Again, Bioware doesn't even claim this.

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Mr. Pot makes his return.

RPGFool said:

Your childish personal attacks establish your maturity level without any help from me or anyone else.
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:lol: