RPG Codex - Top 70 PC RPG List

jwmeep said:

But yes, this list was a huge undertaking, obviously a lot of work went into it, and I'm sure someone will find great rpgs to play from it.

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I agree. The commentary for each game took a lot of effort and I enjoyed reading the commentary particularly about those games I missed.

HiddenX said:

Drithius - it was not a ranking by a committee -> it was a public democratic Codex vote. … plus the demographic factor - some younger players simply don't know older gems of the genre.

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Well, that explains why Diablo wasn't on the list… Either the respondents are too young to remember it, or it wasn't popular enough… After all, the series only sold 25 million games.
BTW, I'm not a huge Diablo fan… too much clicking for my taste… but it is conspicuously missing from the list.

It's really tough to rank games like this... There's so many factors to consider and it's certainly true that a lot of people are biased towards the older "classic" RPGs because of nostalgia factor. But it's also probably not really fair to hold up older games to the same standards as newer stuff considering how much technology has advanced.

I recall Fallout 1 & 2 being really fun but I haven't played either of them in over 10 years. I first played Arcanum recently and while I found the setting and atmosphere incredible, the game play left so much to be desired: combat is terrible, dungeon layouts are pathetic, etc. It's definitely original but I can't really understand why anyone would rate it as one of their top RPGs... I had a similar experience with Planescape: Torment... If I'd played it when it came out I probably could've been more forgiving to the graphics and clunkiness of the Infinity engine... I'm kinda hoping Beamdog does a PS:T Enhanced Edition.

Anyway it is a nice list to refer to... Quite a few games on there I've never played tbh and while I'm sure I wouldn't like some of them... there's some I should probably check out some time.

Can't say much about it since I don't think I've even played 70 rpgs in my lifetime... but as usual, I smell strong Black Isle/Troika/Obsidian favouritism in that list.

I mean #1, 2, 3, 22, 40 = Black Isle, #5, 6, 21 = Troika, #8, 12, 19, 29 = Obsidian.

3 Fallout games are in top 10.... lol. I never played FO games, I suppose I really should give them a go. 6 out of top 10 games are by Black Isle/Troika/Obsidian. I can understand the fame of Black Isle but Troika? Bug ridden products and yet that's overlooked... (yes, personally I disliked all Troika games, so I really don't understand this).

#59 for ME1?? So what, ME1 is only slightly better than NWN2 OC (#61??) I disagree! Yes, it turned to ARPG/shooter but I still think it deserves better than #59!!

purpleblob said:

#59 for ME1?? So what, ME1 is only slightly better than NWN2 OC (#61??) I disagree! Yes, it turned to ARPG/shooter but I still think it deserves better than #59!!

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As mentioned before, the ranking isn't the important thing here.
Personally I would not even add Mass Effect 1 on the list.
It had horrible combat, a horrible skill- and horrible item-system. ME2 kinda "fixed" that by just making the combat more free and cutting skills and items.

Kudos to the Codex. It's a really really really nice list. Far better than the typical annual magazine review of the top RPG games. I must be an old gamer because I think there was only one game I was unfamiliar with and only about 10 I had never played.

I had no problem with the order of the games. It's their list, thus their preference. If you have your own list, we at the Watch have our own ongoing top 10 list thread thats been going on strong for many years.

Also, if someone feels a need to do a thread with the top RPGs of the past 10 years label it properly but do not call it the "Top RPGs etc." I recently played MM7 & MM8 and it was probably in the top 5 of RPGs I have played in the past 5 years, Old games can still be great.

Once again, anyone who has their own top RPGs is welcome to post in our thread. I look forward to reading it.

BTW, I have to update my list. It was made before Fallout Vegas, which is in my top 10 list.

JDR13 said:

Deus Ex is not only one of the best crpgs ever made imo, it's one of the best PC games of all time regardless of genre.

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I agree with the second part of that statement… but is it really an rpg?

I just finished a great action-RPG on my Xbox One yesterday, and I didn't even realize it was an RPG until now… Dead Rising 3.

Character Customization - check
Leveling/Skills/Grinding - check
Player Choice/Multiple Endings - check
Inventory - check
Open-World Exploration - check
Potions - check
NPCs with Quests - check
Party-based Combat - check
Fantasy Setting (I'd say the undead qualifies) - check
Flaming Swords - check
Elemental Staves - check
Ability to Breathe Fire - check
Ability to Combine Inventory Items - check
Graveyard with Voodoo Priestess, summoning circles, and the undead - Check

Can someone prove to me that Dead Rising 3 isn't an RPG??

I don't get the butt-hurt over the rankings. A group of people voted on their favorites and they ordered it accordingly. What could anyone possibly not understand about that? I think its a great list. The only thing I find disappointing about it is that I've already played almost all of those games.

Vindicator said:

I agree with the second part of that statement… but is it really an rpg?

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It's a lot less questionable than some of the other games on that list.

Quest for Glory? King of Dragon Pass? Mount & Blade? Star Control II? I could go on...

purpleblob said:

3 Fallout games are in top 10…. lol. I never played FO games, I suppose I really should give them a go.

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They're great games, but they also tend to get overrated imo. Having both FO 1&2 in the top 3 is absurd. I'd put FO1 in the top 15 and FO2 in the top 25.

I was surprised to see Alpha Protocol as high on the list (#29) as it was - I enjoyed it but many did not.

I was a little surprised to not see the original Neverwinter Nights or Eye of the Beholder II on the list.

CrazyIrish said:

I don't get the butt-hurt over the rankings. A group of people voted on their favorites and they ordered it accordingly. What could anyone possibly not understand about that? I think its a great list. The only thing I find disappointing about it is that I've already played almost all of those games.

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Since between 43% and 65% of respondents voted for each of the top 6 games, there is some significant clustering up at the top. Even with that though, only the top two games were even voted for at all by a majority of the respondents and each game below that only received any points from a minority of respondents. The list below #40 is dominated by games that only 5% of respondents voted for at all.

Given the number of games people could chose from (223) relative to the number respondents (234) and the steep drop off in number of votes a game received below the top 6, making anything of the particular placement of a game relative to another denies the limitation of the survey that offered as broad a possibility of responses as this one did.

What this survey tells you is basically "these are probably most of the games our users liked the most." If you like most of the games on the list and see one that you've never played, then it might suggest that you should give it a try. If your top 6-10 or so games and there top 6-10 look mostly the same except for one or two you've never played, that might be a place to start.

At the same time, since only 19% of respondents gave any of the 25 points they could allocate to the #10 game on the list it's best to keep what this is in perspective. It's a broad survey of favorites of codex members and if a game is on that list at all it shows you that a least a couple of those people thought it was better than the vast majority of 223 other CRPGs - so a good jumping off point if you're hungry for games you haven't tried.

Though I guess you could say that some prominent games being entirely set aside by respondents does make suggest perhaps a stronger consensus for certain things conspicuously outside of the otherwise fairly broad tastes of Codex users. Though if anyone was shocked that Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Mass Effect 2+3, Dragon Age 2 and a few others did not receive outpouring of love from a few outliers to even get them into the list, then you may also be hearing about the Codex for the first time. Still - this doesn't suggest that there is a complete consensus on hating each of those games. It doesn't mean that many wouldn't put one or two of them above quite a few of the games on the list; it just means that nobody gave it any of their 25 points (which if you are giving more than one point to anything is obviously going to be less than 25 games.)

Vindicator said:

I agree with the second part of that statement… but is it really an rpg?

I just finished a great action-RPG on my Xbox One yesterday, and I didn't even realize it was an RPG until now… Dead Rising 3.

Character Customization - check
Leveling/Skills/Grinding - check
Player Choice/Multiple Endings - check
Inventory - check
Open-World Exploration - check
Potions - check
NPCs with Quests - check
Party-based Combat - check
Fantasy Setting (I'd say the undead qualifies) - check
Flaming Swords - check
Elemental Staves - check
Ability to Breathe Fire - check
Ability to Combine Inventory Items - check
Graveyard with Voodoo Priestess, summoning circles, and the undead - Check

Can someone prove to me that Dead Rising 3 isn't an RPG??

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I *HATE* this kind of debate. What does calling Dead Rising 3 an RPG changes? What is the problem if it really is an RPG? As you pointed out it clearly has RPG elements, so I would easily place it on the list if it was a fantastic game. Not doing so would be dumb prejudice, doing nothing more than hiding great games from readers due some personal bias.

felipepepe said:

I *HATE* this kind of debate. What does calling Dead Rising 3 an RPG changes? What is the problem if it really is an RPG? As you pointed out it clearly has RPG elements, so I would easily place it on the list if it was a fantastic game. Not doing so would be dumb prejudice, doing nothing more than hiding great games from readers due some personal bias.

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I think some people are uncomfortable with genre definitions being highly flexible and potentially changing - as those parts of language tied to contemporary culture are particularly wont to do - lest their personal definition suffer the same fate as "geek" being used to mean someone who bites the heads off of live chickens. It's not something I could call an entirely unsympathetic concern though, given how broadly it can be applied and how long the dry spells have been for fans of more specific sub-sets of these games at times. I mean if you were a die-hard blobber fan, there were times when it might have seemed like things were heading to that becoming an archaic use of the term RPG.

Finally a list that actually includes newer games as well

Really nice list of RPGs, but still a few missing that I would have liked to see on the list: Ultima VIII: Pagan, Two Worlds 2: Pirates of the Flying Fortress, Risen 2, Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark

Every player (even felipepepe's and Crooked Bee's) personal list of the top 70 games would be different. Codex list is an an amalgam of opinions of over 200 people.

The reviews in this list include a fitting comment to show how the reversal has moved nearly complete: so a game like M&B:W that features roleplaying is problematic to be listed as a RPG.

RPGs can be any kind of games as long as they do not include roleplaying.

Vindicator said:

I agree with the second part of that statement… but is it really an rpg?

I just finished a great action-RPG on my Xbox One yesterday, and I didn't even realize it was an RPG until now… Dead Rising 3.

Character Customization - check
Leveling/Skills/Grinding - check
Player Choice/Multiple Endings - check
Inventory - check
Open-World Exploration - check
Potions - check
NPCs with Quests - check
Party-based Combat - check
Fantasy Setting (I'd say the undead qualifies) - check
Flaming Swords - check
Elemental Staves - check
Ability to Breathe Fire - check
Ability to Combine Inventory Items - check
Graveyard with Voodoo Priestess, summoning circles, and the undead - Check

Can someone prove to me that Dead Rising 3 isn't an RPG??

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I asked the same question some time ago, no answer. The RPG elements approach is known to be flawed, so called RPGs are just a whim and a marketing gimmick.

felipepepe said:

I *HATE* this kind of debate. What does calling Dead Rising 3 an RPG changes? What is the problem if it really is an RPG? As you pointed out it clearly has RPG elements, so I would easily place it on the list if it was a fantastic game. Not doing so would be dumb prejudice, doing nothing more than hiding great games from readers due some personal bias.

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The question is what does not calling Dead Rising 3 a RPG change?

So far, the industry works as a pay to see model. A lot of resources monopolizing also happens among video games customers.

As it is not possible to determine the content of a game without playing it, this blind spot is occupied by players who get subsidized in their taste.

Marketing the RPG label as corresponding to your tastes in video games is one way to ensure that a flow of resources will go toward games fitting the tastes.
Customers paying to discover that the game is not what they expected it to be only transfer their wealth to players who got the game they want.
Some get a better game thanks to it while others only exist to support some in their tastes.

The Dead Rising series, though, does not need subdizing tricks like that. Getting subsidized into your tastes seems to occur much less in the console world. Maybe a difference between console players and PC players, who are less respectuous one to another and less greedy. Or consoles can afford doing without monopolizing gimmicks for instance as consoles are the place where gaming happens.

felipepepe said:

I *HATE* this kind of debate. What does calling Dead Rising 3 an RPG changes? What is the problem if it really is an RPG? As you pointed out it clearly has RPG elements, so I would easily place it on the list if it was a fantastic game. Not doing so would be dumb prejudice, doing nothing more than hiding great games from readers due some personal bias.

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I *LIKE* debates about CRPG elements (and gaming elements in general), because it sharpens the understanding of game mechanics; how the elements work together and what is typical for each sub genre. But the goal of such a debate should NOT be to find a "pure" CRPG or the "best" CRPG and eliminate all borderline cases.
In fact some of my best gaming experiences are some borderline hybrid CRPGs (like Spellforce, DeusX, System Shock 2, XCom, Kings Bounty, Jagged Alliance - Deadly Games , Pirates!, Elite …).
So I completely agree with you, felipepepe, let's not be CRPG Elitists - let us be CRPG Generalists and include borderline CRPGs. It is much more fun that way.

The problem with defining what makes an RPG or not, is that some people think it's a science - and not something human beings developed, independent of one another, over many years.

There IS no correct answer - there is only opinion.